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University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

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Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#11
post #2

What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…

I'd argue that it's equally as impossible to set up trigger warning policies.

While some trigger warning like the ones you mentioned are valid, the term has been perverted to include all sorts of things[0] where you could get in trouble for talking in public about insects or needles.

It's an impossible task to list out and educate people on everything that might possible trouble or offend. Once you open that door, there is no finite end to a list of triggers.

[0] http://privilege101.tumblr.com/triggers.html

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#14
This is a really hard topic to think about.

On the one hand, I worry that we're moving towards a mind-police driven society where we actively discourage people from saying anything that goes against the grain of society. Be it by activist groups, or algorithms optimizing for clicks and user retention.

On the other hand, it is important to be courteous to each other and not upset people needlessly. Discussions should give people the option to bud out and not participate, if they feel they cannot do so.

On the third hand, maybe we've always lived in a society where we actively discourage participation by anyone who is perceived as upsetting the group and nothing new is happening.

Then again, I think people should be actively encouraged to entertain stances and opinions other than their own. Being upset and offended can often be a good thing.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#15
post #2

What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…

> What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this.

Because they are involve quite similar problems (safe for whom and from what? Warnings for which specific of the billions of potential PTSD triggers?) and are typically advocated for together, by the same people, as linked demands, to serve similar broad purposes.

> But trigger warnings are a really simple common courtesy.

No, they aren't. They are neither simple, nor are they, in fact, a common courtesy (whether or not you think they should be a common courtesy.)

> There was a popular meme spread around the Fourth of July to be considerate of veterans who may be distressed by the sound of fireworks.

There were actual several different ones, most of which were variations on combat veterans with signs at their homes asking for consideration and restraint.

> If you think this is a consideration worth extending to a veteran, it seems perfectly consistent that you'd want survivors of rape or abuse to know that a discussion of rape or abuse was coming up.

(1) Expecting people to, proactively and without knowledge of the particular trauma experienced by or triggers relevant to the audience, provide "trigger warnings" is exactly the reverse of the kind of specific and personal request for consideration at issue in the meme, and

(2) Triggering with PTSD is, in fact, quite complicated, but most often (AFAIK) involves sensory stimuli that are associated with the instance(s) of trauma producing the condition, such as sights, sounds, smells, etc. that were present during the trauma. Discussion of the class of event that relates to the trauma may be areas of strong emotional context and political sensitivity to many people (whether or not they are victims of that particular kind of trauma), but nothing I've read of actual PTSD and triggering suggests that they are particular likely to be triggers in the strict sense, even to victims of the trauma under discussion -- even to victims that do have PTSD and do have genuine, identifiable triggers.

(3) Proactive trigger warnings not based on the real known specific triggers applicable to a specific audience, if one isn't to give priority to certain type of traumas and certain presumed triggers associated with that trauma as "more deserving", quickly turn everything into a mass of warnings, most of which are irrelevant even to people who have PTSD originating in the type of trauma the warning is focused on.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#16
post #2

What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…

I can't decide whether or not I'm playing devil's advocate with this question. In any case, please don't take it too seriously, but I think it might be interesting.

Why did you not include a trigger warning about the discussion of rape in your comment?

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#17
post #10
post #7

Am I missing something, or doesn't safe space just = Library / Dorm room ? Maybe add some headphones so you can't hear anything....

In practice, it basically means "club room where people who don't like the club aren't allowed in".

more like "club room where people who aren't liked by the club aren't allowed in"

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#18
post #9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but you cannot get a proper education with trigger warnings and safe spaces. How so?

The article links to another one discussing the difficulty of teaching law in this environment, because many aspects of law are potentially "triggering": http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rap...

I don't really see the relevance of the article. It complains a lot about students being oversensitive to bad things, but it has barely anything to do with actual trigger warnings.

Trigger warnings aren't about bending to the every whim of everyone you encounter. They're about labeling material ahead of time so that people can make a more informed decision about when and how they expose themselves to it. Nothing about this requires changing educational material; it would just mean putting some notice in the class listings and syllabus about what potentially uncomfortable topics are going to be covered in detail.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#19
post #3

I think this should be a requirement for any university that wants accreditation and certainly all state-run institutions. This is a bold statement not for the Uni. of Chicago, but for every other university that does not have a similar policy in place. Sorry, but you cannot get a proper education with trigger warnings and safe spaces. Therefore, those institutions that do not have the courage to stand up for educati…

So student associations shouldn't be allowed to not allow certain people into their meetings if they're found to be abusive? Because that's the point of a safe space if you didn't know. It's not unlike support groups who can and will eject people who are known to be abusive or otherwise disclose information outside the support group without permission of all members. So, to say that safe spaces shouldn't be allowed i…

No, because the statement expressly says "freedom of expression does not mean the freedom to harass or threaten others."

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#20
post #11
post #2

What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…

I'd argue that it's equally as impossible to set up trigger warning policies. While some trigger warning like the ones you mentioned are valid, the term has been perverted to include all sorts of things[0] where you could get in trouble for talking in public about insects or needles. It's an impossible task to list out and educate people on everything that might possible trouble or offend. Once you open that door, th…

You don't need a trigger warning policy, necessarily. Just a culture that promotes being aware of common triggers. This notice goes in the opposite direction.

>It's an impossible task to list out and educate people on everything that might possible trouble or offend. Once you open that door, there is no finite end to a list of triggers.

It's not necessary to exhaust the full list. Analogously: it's impossible to list out and educate people on every form of negative externality, but we still have laws to address the big ones, and that helps.

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