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Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

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Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#161

Post by tim333 »

Nashhhh wrote: post #27
Analemma_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Margaret Thatcher once said "The problem with socialism is, you eventually run out of other people's money", which makes it ironic and humorous that Uber, the poster child of Valley Objectivism, has basically the same problem with their "price dumping funded by VCs" model.

The key difference being that in the case of Uber, those VCs and investors gave their money voluntarily.

You could argue the VCs in fact gave other people's money - investors money, possibly including your pension - to Uber.

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#162

Post by randomgyatwork »

the_watcher wrote: post #98
huac wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialists have historically been some of the biggest proponents of democracy. You're probably trolling, but it'd be amusing to know which countries you think have socialist governments in place by force.

Maybe democratic socialists. But the track record of explicitly socialist nations is pretty much the exact opposite of pro-democratic. There's a decent argument that those governments were coopted by corruption and never actually turned into true socialist governments, but that's also a flaw in the system, as it relies on humans to not act in their own best interest across the board.

There is also a difference between state-capitalism and socialism, many of the socialist / communist examples we have are actually state-capitalism.

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#163

Post by nicwolff »

the_watcher wrote: post #97
nicwolff wrote: post #66

Uber has taken $12B of capital, broken the regulatory regimes and opened the drive-for-hire markets, marketed the benefits of drive-for-hire and ride-sharing to drivers and consumers, and helped drivers finance vehicles – but now there seems to be no barrier to entry for any competing service except writing an app. I'm happy to let VCs pay for my comfortable daily ride to work but I don't see how this is sustainable.…

> but now there seems to be no barrier to entry for any competing service except writing an app. Except network of drivers, network of riders with the app installed, name recognition, capital to run the backend systems and delve into mapping algorithms, etc.

Almost every NYC Uber driver I've had recently has at least one of the other apps installed and picks up rides from whichever is offering the best driver incentives at the moment. And every Via and Juno driver I've asked bought their vehicle to drive for Uber and then switched.

That's my point: Uber has done a lot of the hardest work for their competitors, but now has to match them on price or watch them eat away at their market. I don't see any strong network effect – what's the advantage to me as a passenger or driver of using Uber because you use Uber?

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#164

Post by guitarsteve »

coralreef wrote: post #146
tuna-piano wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This exact program they're launching helps build a barrier (subscription) 2. Uber Pool requires a large number of drivers and customers to make it work. This is a real network effect and benefit, as having 2-3 customers in a car is more efficient than 1. This requires having other customers on a similiar route. 3. Customers want the closest car to them, meaning the company with the most cars gets a benefit 4. Ther…

I'm not sure that Uber offering some sort of subscription model creates any sort of barrier to entry for competitors wishing to participate in the market.

Sure it does. If you already have an Uber subscription, then you're comparing $2 for a subscription-subsidized Uber ride versus $(more) for a ride from Lyft or some other competitor. The competition won't be able to compete on price at that level.

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#165

Post by nicwolff »

methehack wrote: post #127
capkutay wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think barrier to entry is misunderstood as a technical attribute of a company. Of course it's possible to build some app that tells people nearby to pick them up with metering/billing services built in. From a business standpoint, it would almost be impossible to duplicate what they have today.

I entirely disagree. I don't see proprietary technology that can't be duplicated or bought. I see _some_ network effects but ultimately the drivers will go to the highest bidder and the riders will go to the lowest price. I see _some_ brand equity, but not much. Maybe a little economy of scale, but not much. Yes, they have a head start, but they are far from enthroned. Ultimately, this space will operationalize out t…

My points exactly – but I don't see how self-driving cars can ever work in midtown NYC without dedicated lanes. If you can't credibly pretend that you are willing to hit another vehicle, you'll just get cut off continuously; if you can't credibly pretend that you are willing to get hit, you can't change lanes. Self-driving cars can't do either – and will be the nemesis of hire drivers who will cut them off just to slow them down.

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#166

Post by SilasX »

rhizome wrote: post #129
the_watcher wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And seriously, phrasing the guarantee as before their own cut? Come on, guys. I see your point here and am annoyed by this tendency, but to be fair, in the US, this is pretty common. After all, salaries are reported pre-tax, despite a $100K salary meaning wildly different post-tax nets depending on where in the country you live.

It's like saying the income of a waiter is equal to the check totals they serve.

Thanks, that's a better example, though with a more extreme difference: "Come work at ElegantPlace! Pull in $2000 a night!" -> "Hey, I only got 400." -> "What? Your tables definitely paid 2000."

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#167

Post by jbrambleDC »

linkregister wrote: post #117
revelation wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they are building a worse rail?

More like the last mile to stem the gap in coverage by Metro. Metro will always beat surface streets within downtown.

This is actually unclear. A lot of our metro systems are held together by crumbling infrastructure (like DC) and are becoming extremely slow, delayed and rely on unsafe tracks. To make matters worse a lot of competing jurisdictions are cutting public funding to maintaining the system. A commute from Vienna, VA to Metro center in DC has regularly been taking 1.5 - 2hrs. 3 years ago that trip was 45 min. its still about 30-45 min by car.

The only real benefit to public transit at this point is that it allows you to dodge the cost of parking your vehicle for a day while you are at work. But Uber has figured out other ways to successfully allow people to dodge that cost.

With Uber pool my commute takes roughly the same time as metro, is door to door, and now cheaper and in many ways safer than taking the metro.

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#168

Post by LordHumungous »

the_watcher wrote: post #97
nicwolff wrote: post #66

Uber has taken $12B of capital, broken the regulatory regimes and opened the drive-for-hire markets, marketed the benefits of drive-for-hire and ride-sharing to drivers and consumers, and helped drivers finance vehicles – but now there seems to be no barrier to entry for any competing service except writing an app. I'm happy to let VCs pay for my comfortable daily ride to work but I don't see how this is sustainable.…

> but now there seems to be no barrier to entry for any competing service except writing an app. Except network of drivers, network of riders with the app installed, name recognition, capital to run the backend systems and delve into mapping algorithms, etc.

>Except network of drivers

Good thing Uber has conveniently created that for you.

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#169

Post by LordHumungous »

tuna-piano wrote: post #92
nicwolff wrote: post #66

Uber has taken $12B of capital, broken the regulatory regimes and opened the drive-for-hire markets, marketed the benefits of drive-for-hire and ride-sharing to drivers and consumers, and helped drivers finance vehicles – but now there seems to be no barrier to entry for any competing service except writing an app. I'm happy to let VCs pay for my comfortable daily ride to work but I don't see how this is sustainable.…

1. This exact program they're launching helps build a barrier (subscription) 2. Uber Pool requires a large number of drivers and customers to make it work. This is a real network effect and benefit, as having 2-3 customers in a car is more efficient than 1. This requires having other customers on a similiar route. 3. Customers want the closest car to them, meaning the company with the most cars gets a benefit 4. Ther…

Half the time I take an Uber pool I end up riding alone. My guess is the margins on it are not stellar.

Re: Uber launches flat fares in San Francisco through subscription

#170

Post by pjlegato »

John23832 wrote: post #150
pjlegato wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you have heard of the People's Democratic Republics of East Germany, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Czechoslovakia, and Albania? Socialism was imposed by a foreign occupying army. Or take the Soviet Union itself. The democratically elected Provisional Government was overthrown by force. Even the socialists-only Constituent Assembly election was simply voided and ignored by t…

Ideally, political change can happen without violence or bloodshed. But we don' live in an ideal world. We never have, and we never will. Pretty much ANY political system gains power through bloodshed. The United States, Canada, England, France, Germany, pretty much the entirety of South America, Africa and Asia... With the wide ranges of political systems that span all these places, each and every one of them was pu…

That's all entirely beside the point. The post was responding to another post claiming that historic socialists have been particularly great advocates of democracy, which is empirically false.

Whether other systems have also been undemocratic is irrelevant (the "tu quoque fallacy").

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