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Israel deploys automated military robots

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Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#51
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's better than both sides being humans. Seriously. Incremental improvements are worthwhile. In general, militaries never want to comprise their effectiveness. So if given the chance to implement a life-saving intervention that harms their effectiveness, they will be reluctant at best to implement it. But this is a life-saving intervention that possibly even increases their effectiveness! That's what truly makes i…

That's a best case scenario. What it could do is make military intervention an even easier decision. The loss of human life is a deterrent to engaging in war. If one side isn't concerned about that, wouldn't they be more inclined to go to war?

Conversely removing the threat to human life may reduce the probability of escalation and make a response more measured.

For example two men break through a security fence. A robotic patrol would seem to be much less likely to respond with deadly force than a human patrol would in that situation.

If the men were refugees or wounded soilders looking for medical care the more measured response of the robotic patrol may prevent a death and actually de-escalate conflict.

Also assume that the two men were hostile and fired on the patrol. The destruction of the mech is much less likely to provoke a political and civilian response than the death of a human and may lead to a more measured response.

My bigger concern is that a fully mechanized force may decrease the apparent cost of oppressing a civilian population.

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brimstone can select its own targets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_(missile) This kind of ability to pick specific targets has been around for a while - e.g. SADARM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense_and_Destroy_ARMor Edit: Of course someone decides to fire these things, but isn't that similar to someone deciding to unleash an autonomous fighting system? Edit2: And what about mines?

Those are very good points. I totally agree with you on mines. But I would say that deciding to fire an autonomous missile in a hostile environment is not the same as deciding to unleash an autonomous fighting system. In the first case, a human decides to unleash the autonomous missile once during a single event. Whereas in the second case, you are unleashing a system that decides for itself when to fire for every si…

An autonomous fighting system is likely to reduce casualties on both sides, especially in this case.

When you have manned patrols they engage the enemy because otherwise they would be killed or hurt, they have more incentive to prosecute any enemy combatants because they are a direct threat.

Autonomous systems do not have that, they can can engage with both lethal and less than lethal options but they do not have the same sense of urgency to prosecute the targets.

Additionally in this conflict specifically you have one side which wants to inflict casualties at all costs including it's own men and if possible take hostages even if it's just bodies because Israel has released 1000's of prisoners before just to get bodies.

If there are no manned patrols organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah would be less inclined to execute attacks on the border their attacks have no strategic or tactical value other than to inflict as many casualties on both sides as they can.

Any Israeli they capture or kill is a political win for Hamas internally, any Palestinian Israel kills is a political win for Hamas internationally.

Israel has been operating UGV's for 5-6 years now the Gaurdium went in service a few years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardium the program has been "terminated" but it looks like what they've done is simply taken the drive kit from the Guardium and put it on the Ford 150/250/350 trucks they use because it's cheaper than making UGV's from the ground up.

If the patrol that Hezbollah attacked in 2006 was a "robotic" one, Israel might have retaliated against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon but it would not have invaded, the only reason it did was because Hezbollah captured the bodies of Israeli soldiers. Captives whether they are dead or alive is simply unacceptable to the Israeli military and public at levels people in the west simply cannot grasp.

Every body and every body part must be retrieved this is prosecuted with almost fanatic level of commitment (case and point the philadelphi corridor incident where Israeli soldiers spent 2 days under fire sifting through sand to retrieve body parts after an APC carrying munitions exploded), the IDF through its all of is operational history and all of its wars only has had 5 soldiers that were classified as MIA and their bodies were never retrieved.

This includes 3 tank crew members which were captured during the battle of Sultan Yacoub (Israel finally managed to get the tank back from Russia this year), a navigator that was captured by AMAL (a Lebanese paramilitary organization) and one soldier that went MIA during his conscripted service, this isn't combat related (suspected suicide/criminal activity).

That's it, every other casualties and captive since the war of 1948 has been retrieved, when you take that into account replacing patrols with Ford pickup's that Israel will not start a war over makes a lot of sense.

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure we are really increasing collateral damage, relative to where we started 100 years ago. The days of firing 1-3 million heavy artillery shells in a day[1] are past, as are the days of dropping tens of thousands of tons of bombs indiscriminantly on a city[2]. Blowing up a single house with a drone-launched missile, or taking out a bridge with a single laser-guided bomb is far more surgical. One can imagine…

It's true we are making less collateral damage then in the golden days, but the problem is that the more advanced one side becomes the less of a chance the other side has. It's not just about fighting terrorists. We don't know who will be in command next. Giving this tech into the wrong hands will do some massive damages. There is always a chance to find ourselves on the wrong end of the drone. Also the drone targets…

" We don't know who will be in command next." Thats the real issue. Drone armies is every dictator's wet dream, an unstoppable mass-produced force.

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#55
A brainwashed suicide bomber is not much different from an autonomous bio-robot.

Indoctrination [1] doesn't let you question or criticize your programming, unlike modified Asimov's Laws [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics

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