Docker isn't serverless • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#21

Post by nzoschke » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

joombaga wrote: post #9

yalooze wrote: post #6

I would consider a project in Docker serverless if it is used in something like AWS EC2 Container Service (ECS).

Why? Even with ECS the container's host is maintained by you . It's hardly more "serverless" (less serverful?) than just running docker on EC2.

Here's some nuance to consider...

If configured properly everything in an ECS stack is a service offered by AWS:

AMI maintenance is a service provided by the ECS team

The ASG service automates cluster side

CloudWatch Logs service ingests all your logs and offers archival and search services

ELB and ALB are managed services

CloudFormation service can configure all this.

I live in a world where I configure all this but maintenance is trending way down.

It's not zero like on Heroku but maybe it's a happy trade off for the extra customization...

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#22

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

joombaga wrote: post #9

yalooze wrote: post #6

I would consider a project in Docker serverless if it is used in something like AWS EC2 Container Service (ECS).

Why? Even with ECS the container's host is maintained by you . It's hardly more "serverless" (less serverful?) than just running docker on EC2.

[deleted]

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#23

Post by Thaxll » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

jackweirdy wrote: post #3

Kudos to the author for writing this. Serverless is a thing, but Docker definitely isn't it. Nor is AWS lambda. Serverless is client-only code, or even Peer-to-Peer between self-coordinating clients. There's a lot of stuff that overlaps in this domain, including microservices, containers, serverless, and if we want to talk about them we should use the right terminology.

p2p is not serverless, your computer / client is a server.

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#24

Post by cocktailpeanuts » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 2:04 PM UTC

I can understand why people try to come up with a definitive definition of "serverless" but....

"Serverless" is an adjective.

Adjectives are used to provide auxiliary meaning to the noun it's attached to, which means it depends on context.

It could be a "serverless website", it could be a "serverless hosting", it could even be a "serverless diner"!

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#25

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

Thaxll wrote: post #23

jackweirdy wrote: post #3

Kudos to the author for writing this. Serverless is a thing, but Docker definitely isn't it. Nor is AWS lambda. Serverless is client-only code, or even Peer-to-Peer between self-coordinating clients. There's a lot of stuff that overlaps in this domain, including microservices, containers, serverless, and if we want to talk about them we should use the right terminology.

p2p is not serverless, your computer / client is a server.

Yes, and writing with a pencil is not serverless, because paper is a server. /s

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#26

Post by digi_owl » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 2:10 PM UTC

Sounds like ol' Murky and ilk is at it again...

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#27

Post by ryan_sb » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

jpb0104 wrote: post #2

Related recently published podcast: http://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/08/23/serverless-ar...

I also was on SEDaily a while back on the same topic http://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/06/20/serverless-co...

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#28

Post by CaptSpify » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

stuaxo wrote: post #12

Ugh, of all the jargon the dev world has come up with serverless is the worst - if it runs on another computer it is not server less.

And this is why we have so many crappy blog posts and comments trying to define serverless. People are trying to define a term that fundamentally is incorrect about what it's trying to describe.

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#29

Post by kidsil » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 2:37 PM UTC

How could someone claim docker is serverless? It's pretty much the definition of server.

It's servermore if anything.

Re: Docker isn't serverless

#30

Post by jackweirdy » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #5

jackweirdy wrote: post #3

Kudos to the author for writing this. Serverless is a thing, but Docker definitely isn't it. Nor is AWS lambda. Serverless is client-only code, or even Peer-to-Peer between self-coordinating clients. There's a lot of stuff that overlaps in this domain, including microservices, containers, serverless, and if we want to talk about them we should use the right terminology.

>Serverless is client-only code, or even Peer-to-Peer between self-coordinating clients. That's a valid definition but it's just one of many. The Function-as-a-Service has also been called "serverless" . Your definition of "serverless" demarcates on where the code runs. The FaaS "serverless"[1] differentiates on what part of the stack you don't have to manage the housekeeping for. With FaaS-serverless, you don't worr…

> Your definition of "serverless" demarcates on where the code runs.

Additionally, that's an assumption you're making about what I said - I said no server. Nothing about where the server is