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4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

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Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#201

Post by dsego »

tinco wrote: post #98
jff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like most engineers and other creatives Free yourself of culturally-assigned norms ("engineers and creative people work best at midnight, with lots of coffee") and consider a wider breadth of experience. The most productive and effective person I know, a computer engineer, typically starts working before I'm even awake. The premise of the article is that 4 a.m. is both outside most of society's normal waking period…

I've never in my life drank even a sip of coffee, energy drink only a few times mostly during college. I have also never woken naturally before 9am. Literally as long as I remember even as a child before high school in the weekends I would sleep in when my younger siblings would rummage through the house the entire morning, much to my parents surprise. I don't doubt that it would be possible to be conditioned to wake…

Sleep hygiene.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#202

Post by dsego »

jameslk wrote: post #34

I'm one of those unlucky types that have the hardest time waking up and getting going in the morning. Mentally I'm at 50% or less. Is there anyone else like this who's found techniques or other methods of overcoming the slow start?

Modafinil, from my limited experience, corrects my sleep-wake cycle. Also something exciting to look forward to, or a great pressure, like an important meeting or appointment. Also, social pressure, e.g. camping in the mountains with friends, the sun wakes me up at 5am eager to start the day. Otherwise I could sleep till noon.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#203

Post by Aeolos »

wott wrote: post #159
sliverstorm wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually don't manage to fall asleep before 2am. That would probably be why you don't wake up naturally at 4AM Talking about waking up early puts the cart before the horse. It's really about going to sleep early, IMO.

Whatever. If I go to bed early, I roll in my bed for 2, then 4, then 6 hours and not find any sleep. And that's on a good day. On a bad one, it will be for 8 hours and then it's time to wake up. When I was a kid, my folks put me in bed every evening at 8 PM, sharing the same false assumption as you. And I spent hours after hours watching the darkness. I would almost always fall asleep later than them, and often not u…

Thank you for writing this. I had exactly the same experience, since primary school I would stay awake until 2-3AM every night staring at nothing. My biological clock just couldn't accept the 8PM sleep schedule.

Then at some point I decided to start listening to it, and found my most productive hours between 12PM to 4AM, then waking up at around 10AM to start the next day. That's how I rolled my university years, masters, PhD and (entrepreneurial) work. Unfortunately, trying to explain that to conservative "early to bed early to rise" folk is a usually waste of time...

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#205

Post by sangnoir »

restalis wrote: post #200
throwaway26960 wrote: post #13

I recently started waking up at 4 a.m and go to bed at 8-9pm. It has done wonders for my life. I realized I was confusing my personal task list with my work task list - the two should not be confused. I complete all my personal tasks in the morning, such as, studying a new language, practicing a musical instrument, learning to draw, and a couple other skills I want to learn and improve. Then when I'm worn out and it'…

"Then when I'm worn out and it's time for work" "I feel satisfied knowing that at least I accomplished my goals for the day, which is all that matters." So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK. You must be one of those folks who detest their job to do that. Please change your job. First, this may give you an opportunity to do something more enjoyable and leave what you cur…

> So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK

I don't see what the problem is here, unless he signed a contract that said he'd give his best hours to the employer.

> Second, if you do your paid job well enough despite being "worn out", then you're not using your full potential, which is a pity.

No one hires you to "use your full potential" - they hire you to do your job. What would be the problem if Albert Einstein were to teach jnr high school[1] science and doodling away on his personal theoretical physics at 4AM?

I see no ethical quagmire of putting ones' interest before the employers while fulfilling the prescribed duties, especially when considering the power balance and the fact that the other party in this relationship is usually a soulless legal construct that puts itself (and shareholders) before any employee.

1. or a Swedish patent office

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#206

Post by dragonwriter »

restalis wrote: post #200
throwaway26960 wrote: post #13

I recently started waking up at 4 a.m and go to bed at 8-9pm. It has done wonders for my life. I realized I was confusing my personal task list with my work task list - the two should not be confused. I complete all my personal tasks in the morning, such as, studying a new language, practicing a musical instrument, learning to draw, and a couple other skills I want to learn and improve. Then when I'm worn out and it'…

"Then when I'm worn out and it's time for work" "I feel satisfied knowing that at least I accomplished my goals for the day, which is all that matters." So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK. You must be one of those folks who detest their job to do that. Please change your job. First, this may give you an opportunity to do something more enjoyable and leave what you cur…

He's using his full potential, just not on work he's selling to others. I don't see anything wrong with doing that, as long as the market value of what he is selling is able to support that practice. Work to live, not live to work.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#207

Post by Broken_Hippo »

restalis wrote: post #200
throwaway26960 wrote: post #13

I recently started waking up at 4 a.m and go to bed at 8-9pm. It has done wonders for my life. I realized I was confusing my personal task list with my work task list - the two should not be confused. I complete all my personal tasks in the morning, such as, studying a new language, practicing a musical instrument, learning to draw, and a couple other skills I want to learn and improve. Then when I'm worn out and it'…

"Then when I'm worn out and it's time for work" "I feel satisfied knowing that at least I accomplished my goals for the day, which is all that matters." So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK. You must be one of those folks who detest their job to do that. Please change your job. First, this may give you an opportunity to do something more enjoyable and leave what you cur…

He doesn't view his job as something that determines his potential nor his worth, nor is this something necessary for life enjoyment as long as the job is tolerable. The hobbies and other such things makes him inherently happy. Not only that, but these things are much more constant than a simple job.

A job is just a job, however. A lot of people don't really like working at all. If he works at a factory, he's not doing anyone a favor by doing an already good job better - there are limits to what folks can do in that situation. He is, however, doing them a favor by having a work/life balance that makes him happy because it helps make his attitude better.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#208

Post by detaro »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #54
detaro wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a normally decidedly non-morning person, getting up really early (2-4am) works surprisingly well for me. Allows for a really slow, but stress-free morning, which leads to a more productive rest of the day. The hardest part (for me) is realizing that yes, I have done enough and am tired, and should not power through an evening-low and stay up until after midnight. YMMV of course, but getting up really early might n…

You aren't truly a non-morning person, I think, because it works for you. You might not like mornings, but it isn't wired in as it is in some of us. Waking before 8-9am seriously affects the very quality of sleep. 8-9am takes a little attention to my sleeping and continued use of an alarm clock, but I can get a decent enough sleep. At 6-7am wakings, it is doable with a great deal of work. I then continually run the r…

I feel like you about the 6-9 period, and I still prefer and fall back to getting up at 9 (or later if nothing stops me).

But if getting up late is not an option, 3am beats 6 or 7 am for me. Which is a solution for times when I have to do something early.

But again, just my personal experience. Everybody is different, and nothing is worse than telling other people "oh, you are doing it wrong, just do X and be a normal person!"

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#209

Post by restalis »

sangnoir wrote: post #205
restalis wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Then when I'm worn out and it's time for work" "I feel satisfied knowing that at least I accomplished my goals for the day, which is all that matters." So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK. You must be one of those folks who detest their job to do that. Please change your job. First, this may give you an opportunity to do something more enjoyable and leave what you cur…

> So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK I don't see what the problem is here, unless he signed a contract that said he'd give his best hours to the employer. > Second, if you do your paid job well enough despite being "worn out", then you're not using your full potential, which is a pity. No one hires you to "use your full potential" - they hire you to do your job. What…

"No one hires you to «use your full potential» - they hire you to do your job. What would be the problem if Albert Einstein were to teach jnr high school science and doodling away on his personal theoretical physics at 4AM?"

I wasn't caring about the employer on that particular statement, it was about living one's full potential in general. And for Einstein parable, in practice what you do often gets on your mind before something else, it's basically the opposite of "out of sight out of mind".

"I see no ethical quagmire of putting ones' interest before the employers while fulfilling the prescribed duties, especially when considering the power balance and the fact that the other party in this relationship is usually a soulless legal construct that puts itself (and shareholders) before any employee."

You've laid out a battlefield here, a context of conflicting interests or a situation with opposing parties at least. My advice was to get away from that, because that is not worth anyone's involvement. Change jobs, do something you enjoy and care to get involved into.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#210

Post by restalis »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #207
restalis wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Then when I'm worn out and it's time for work" "I feel satisfied knowing that at least I accomplished my goals for the day, which is all that matters." So, you're basically selling your least productive time and you're saying this is OK. You must be one of those folks who detest their job to do that. Please change your job. First, this may give you an opportunity to do something more enjoyable and leave what you cur…

He doesn't view his job as something that determines his potential nor his worth, nor is this something necessary for life enjoyment as long as the job is tolerable. The hobbies and other such things makes him inherently happy. Not only that, but these things are much more constant than a simple job. A job is just a job, however. A lot of people don't really like working at all. If he works at a factory, he's not doi…

I understand your view, I've been there. I'm just encouraging both throwaway26960 and you (or anyone else for that mater) to look for something better. It's possible to end up with something more than merely "tolerable", something worth spending more than just leftovers of your energy.
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