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Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

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Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#251

Post by redsparrow »

Here's a snapshot of what things are like in Berlin, Germany.

I dropped my 7 year old off at a new day camp (in the centre of the city) last week. They asked me if she was allowed to leave on her own at the end of the day.

Here are the rules for kids riding on the subway system:

"Children under four years of age may only use public transport if they are accompanied by a person who is at least six years of age."

That said, you don't see a lot of little kids travelling alone but it seems that the discretion is with the parents.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#252

Post by harryh »

JamesBarney wrote: post #236
harryh wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the absence of meaningful data BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY! said the overprotective parent that wouldn't let their 12 year old kid bike 5 blocks to school. Seriously, once you see the parallels between how parents afraid of criminals and parents afraid of CPS talk about the risks you can't un-see them.

Number of kids abducted by strangers per year 115. Number of kids investigated by the CPS 3.2 million. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196467.pdf

Your second data point is not a relevant comparison. The number you need is the number of people incorrectly taken from their parents by CPS.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#253

Post by cafard »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #112
JonnieCache wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One hears of this kind of thing happening in the US all the time (obviously it is a big place.) I always wonder what proportion of it is due to genuine misplaced concern for the children, and how much of it is strife of the "they don't like the color of your house" variety. One thinks of Homeowner Associations and the way they place fines and pseudo-legal orders on people, a concept which is utterly anathema to the e…

Honestly, I think a lot of this nannying comes from middle aged people who never had children, but maybe who wanted them and could not have them. So there's an element of ignorance about how autonomous children can be, and also jealousy and revenge against those who have what they wanted and can no longer have.

A few years ago, I heard of the expression "sanctimommy" ("Oh, you let your children eat non-organic vegetables?"), so this is not limited to the childless.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#254

Post by SmallDeadGuy »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #241
Radle wrote: post #84

Are there places in America where things are not this extreme? I am looking for a career in IT, so coming to the Valley might be something I am going to do in my career. But I would want my kids to grow up in a different, more independent way. Like I did in my home country. (If I was in America now and thinking about getting children, this article would be a 100% reason to go back to my home country, it totally gave…

Well, I grew up in a small town of 20000 in Virginia, and I don't think things are, or were, like this at all. When I go home, I see children arrive at the YMCA to play basketball unaccompanied. They also arrive at the library alone. When I worked at the town pool as recently as 5 years ago, our most common swimmers were kids who showed up alone on their bikes or skateboards. Thinking back about 10-15 years ago when…

20000 is a small town for you? I guess I've never lived in a small town, only in tiny villages between 300-900 people or cities of 100000+ but my nearest town is ~20000 and I've always considered it pretty large with lots of disconnected communities and areas.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#255

Post by paulrpotts »

danellis wrote: post #212
paulrpotts wrote: post #180

My wife has been yelled at by strangers for filling up the car with gas, then walking 25 feet from the gas pump to the payment window and paying for the gas... because our kids were in the car 25 feet away. She's had the police and the neighborhood watch called repeatedly because our children were playing in our own yard. It's not a world I recognize and I'm increasingly disturbed by people's strange ideas about chil…

Where on Earth do you live? That just sounds preposterous.

Downtown Saginaw, Michigan... a lot of our neighbors are retirees. On the one hand, you'd think they would know better, having grown up (largely) before "helicopter parenting," but I think it may be more likely because my children are bi-racial...

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#256

Post by paulrpotts »

x1798DE wrote: post #191
paulrpotts wrote: post #180

My wife has been yelled at by strangers for filling up the car with gas, then walking 25 feet from the gas pump to the payment window and paying for the gas... because our kids were in the car 25 feet away. She's had the police and the neighborhood watch called repeatedly because our children were playing in our own yard. It's not a world I recognize and I'm increasingly disturbed by people's strange ideas about chil…

Did the police actually do anything? Part of the responsibility here falls on the police to say, "It is not a crime to let children play unsupervised, mind your own business." I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually illegal to make frivolous complaints of this nature.

No, they've never actually come to talk to us.

For a year or so I had a habit of taking a long daily walk in my neighborhood -- sometimes I would take my baby boy out and wear him in on my back in a baby carrier. That gave my wife a break and after a hundred yards or so he would inevitably fall asleep.

Someone apparently called the police saying I was carrying a dead baby around the neighborhood in a backpack, and I had an officer stop and ask if he could talk to me and verify that the backpack was actually a child carrier. He was apologetic and friendly about the whole thing but it really makes me wonder WTF my neighbors think about us...

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#257

Post by paulrpotts »

arprocter wrote: post #200
paulrpotts wrote: post #180

My wife has been yelled at by strangers for filling up the car with gas, then walking 25 feet from the gas pump to the payment window and paying for the gas... because our kids were in the car 25 feet away. She's had the police and the neighborhood watch called repeatedly because our children were playing in our own yard. It's not a world I recognize and I'm increasingly disturbed by people's strange ideas about chil…

When I was a kid my parents would let me pump their gas. I also ran errands in town by myself, and was left to look after younger siblings before my teens. IMO the sooner you're given responsibilities the sooner you learn to be responsible. As when there was talk of raising the driving age because 'all these teens are dying' - it's inexperience, not so much the age which matters.

Yeah, I myself was a latch-key kid, biked everywhere, had a landscaping job at 14 and worked in grocery stores throughout high school.

Although I'm not super-excited about putting teenagers behind the wheels of cars until their brains have caught up with their bodies and they don't think they are immortal any more...

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#258

Post by Declanomous »

tropo wrote: post #235
Declanomous wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That level of concern is a bit ridiculous for a 10 year old. I was riding my bike all over by myself at that point. Crossing the street with indirect supervision is something I'd trust a 6 year old with. Now maybe I had a charmed childhood, but I'm in my mid twenties, so it's not like I'm talking about growing up in the 50's here. My parents are older though, they did grow up in the 50s, and I I know they view indepe…

One child is kind of a backup for another. If you can be honest with yourself, this becomes very clear once you have several kids of each gender. Paranoia has risen because so few people have full-sized families these days. Losing one kid has become a tragedy.

On an evolutionary scale that's true, but on an interpersonal level it's less true. It's not like a person is more valuable because they are an only child.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#259

Post by JamesBarney »

SilasX wrote: post #120
JamesBarney wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly interesting article on how ineffective terrorism is. https://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20Effective

So then the kill ratio wasn't 150:1 on 9/11? What (among points I made) is that replying to?

"3) Terrorists ramp up efforts against any vector they've found to be weak. While they currently account for a very small percentage of deaths, that doesn't mean we should have just shrugged our shoulders and done nothing, even basic measures like locked cockpit doors and ending the recommendation of passenger compliance."

Your argument seemed to me to imply that terrorism is small fraction of deaths because we as a society have implemented countermeasures keeping their kill rates low. This article argues that we have few deaths from terrorism not because society is great at preventing terrorism deaths but because terrorists just aren't that motivated in causing large death tolls.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#260

Post by arprocter »

paulrpotts wrote: post #257
arprocter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid my parents would let me pump their gas. I also ran errands in town by myself, and was left to look after younger siblings before my teens. IMO the sooner you're given responsibilities the sooner you learn to be responsible. As when there was talk of raising the driving age because 'all these teens are dying' - it's inexperience, not so much the age which matters.

Yeah, I myself was a latch-key kid, biked everywhere, had a landscaping job at 14 and worked in grocery stores throughout high school. Although I'm not super-excited about putting teenagers behind the wheels of cars until their brains have caught up with their bodies and they don't think they are immortal any more...

Anecdotal; but my first accident was in my 20s, several years into my driving career.

I think the fact a lot of people's first car is normally old, cheap and crappy has a lot to do with it. It's commonly believed it's an inevitability young drivers will wreck and then we put them in the most unsafe vehicles available...

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