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Overselling A.D.H.D.

nytimes.com

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Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#211

Post by thwarted »

falcolas wrote: post #178
metaphorm wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bladder infection is an infection by a microbial disease. it's a pathogen caused by another organism that shouldn't be present in a healthy body. what exactly is ADHD? what is being treated, anyway? this is medicating for "normality", which is another way of saying our society is defining and enforcing (with mind-altering drugs) a very narrow band of acceptable personalities and behavioral responses to environmental…

> this is medicating for "normality" No, it really isn't. There's nothing normal about having ADHD. It's debilitating: it makes it very hard to hold a job. It makes it nearly impossible to plan for the future. Imagine having a horn blowing in your ear at a random interval between a second and an hour, completely disrupting your train of thought, as if you just did a complete mental context switch. How big of a mental…

This description is right out of Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron, written in the context of opposite effect of handicapping those of extreme skill/means rather than the debilitating effect of those trying to live a "normal" life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#212

Post by dang »

saosebastiao wrote: post #138

I'm really glad that there is a bar for psychiatric expertise that ignoramuses like you are in no danger of passing.

That's seriously out of line. Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News, regardless of how wrong someone is. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it. Instead, please re-read the following, and post civilly and substantively, or not at all, from now on:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12345209 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#214

Post by dang »

barrkel wrote: post #128

You're amazingly invested in this topic for an account with so few historical comments. I counted 11 comments on this topic out of 20 comments total. I'm not saying you're a shill, but it's suspicious.

Accusations/insinuations of shillage are not allowed on HN without evidence. An opposing view is not enough to count as evidence. I agree that that changes if someone uses HN exclusively to push a certain line, but that isn't the case here.

Playing the "you're shilling" card (or insinuating it, which amounts to the same thing) is a huge breach of civility, so the bar needs to be high—high enough to exclude it as an internet trope or argument tactic—and I don't think you cleared it.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12345189 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#215

Post by danellis »

scottmf wrote: post #90
panglott wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We simply don't know what the impact is of administering powerful amphetamines to children upon their development. Is there a population of children that would "age out" of the ADHD spectrum and develop coping mechanisms, if they were not given pills that prevent that? In such a case, the medication is actually hampering their development.

We have 80 years of data from giving children low doses of stimulants. >In such a case, the medication is actually hampering their development. Again, the actual data say otherwise. Medication tends to help children develop proper coping mechanisms. Not medicating is more likely to result in social rejection, drug abuse, depression, dropping out of school, and so on. Most of this anti-medication sentiment is unscient…

Ugh. I hate this. My son has ADHD, and the public school just couldn't cope with him. He was bored so often, and had no release for his energy because they rarely gave them recess (it got taken away if the class was too noisy, because teachers are idiots). When he was diagnosed, we made the difficult decision to give him medication. It made a big difference to his behaviour in school, to the extent that if he ever forgot to take it, the teacher would call me and have me take it in for him.

Now we're coming to the end of the summer, more than two months where he hasn't taken his medication, and he's been completely within the limits of what we can cope with. But I guess we're not trying to control 30 of them. He's starting at a private (Waldorf) school in a couple of weeks.

Ironically, we can now barely afford it after I just got fired from my job as a software engineer, because my own problems with ADHD were hindering my ability to work quickly.

Now I have to decide whether to start him at his new school with or without his medication. I mean, did it really help him, or was it just helping his teacher? Should I let him be himself, or am I doing him a disservice by not giving it to him? He needs to do well in this school, and students there start with a month-long probationary period.

It's a really tough call.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#216

Post by theaustinseven »

engx wrote: post #120
anexprogrammer wrote: post #58

As someone in my 5th decade, with lifelong ADHD (though given my age it did not exist in my youth, and was only diagnosed relatively recently), I'm wary of backing away from treatments until we actually do have real viable alternatives. It took far too long to get ADHD widely recognised, and even now it's often more likely to be received with humour than real recognition. Much more research, especially on other possi…

Why do people on meth enjoy cleaning? There is little difference between meth and Adderall. Taking any type of stimulant even coffee helps people do menial tasks and be more optimistic while doing them. Maybe millions of people are effected by some problem of distraction and lack of focus. But to suggest there's some biochemical reason for this that's cured by amphetamines seems like pseudoscience to me. Drugs do wor…

I think you are being a bit dismissive of what is a widely accepted mental disability[1][2][3][4][5]. If you want to spout some nonsense about how you feel about the field, that's fine, but note that you are falling into the same category of people that don't believe in climate change because winter was "pretty cold". It just so turns out that the world is not all about you, and while it may be difficult to understand that this may be a real issue for some people, you shouldn't say that this is a substance abuse problem. To say that is at the very least ignorant.

[1]: http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/121/1/65/ [2]: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709... [3]: http://www.mednet.org.uy/~spu/wp/WPA_2_2003.pdf#page=42 [4]: http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2000-00431-006 [5]: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0387760406...

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#217

Post by theaustinseven »

sseal wrote: post #156
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine this: you're an adult professional, sitting at your desk looking at a freelance work assignment that needs to be done by tomorrow, weeping with frustration because you've been staring at it for eight solid hours, trying and trying to begin, and you can't because focusing on anything important is like trying to grip a handful of water. Because you ran out of your meds. This is what my life is like. If that doe…

three things: 1. You do not enjoy your work, and thus have no motivation. 2. Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. 3. You have built a mental dependency that you must take amphetamines to "focus", and this hinders your real ability to focus. All of those things ^^^ I have experienced at one point or another in my life. You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not…

Look, I understand you may not understand what it is like having ADHD, but your post came off incredibly dismissive. Telling a person with ADHD to "just focus" can be like telling a person in a wheelchair to "go for a run": it is incredibly frustrating to hear and can be nearly impossible. This may be a hard concept for you to get your head around, but this is a real problem for some people and medication is a real(and often necessary) solution to a real problem.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#218

Post by danielscrubs »

jrapdx3 wrote: post #86

Since I've had the responsibility of managing the treatment of at least a thousand adults and adolescents with ADHD, it's a subject I've studied quite a bit. And as the medical literature attests ADHD is probably among the most researched of all medical conditions and its reality is unquestioned based on the scientific literature. When people say "I don't believe in ADHD" I point out it's not like believing in Santa…

I went to a top tier school. Lot's of people would pop ADHD medication, received from friends, to cram before exams.

I've heard from doctors that it's not supposed to work like that, but here we are, friends are still taking it to get an edge.

Also it seems kind of prevalent in Wall Street. It does seem like a lot of people benefit from it, but I think a lot of people think: would I be working in Wall Street if I where doping? I think that's the crux, we are all competing for the highest salary/status in either small or big ways. I'm not saying it's wrong. Might be good for humanity that everyone that shows any effect starts to take it. It's the insecurity of not knowing if we should take it that makes people become frustrated at the doctors and patients. I don't think anything can really be done about it as long as we are competing. The next question would be: If this doesn't work, what medication will work to make me better than the best? Almost everyone says than we shouldn't care about that, but their actions speaks louder than their words, how many do you know that moves away from big cities for example? No one. Have a nice watch? Brags about working a lot?

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#219

Post by dustinls »

angry-hacker wrote: post #206
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine this: you're an adult professional, sitting at your desk looking at a freelance work assignment that needs to be done by tomorrow, weeping with frustration because you've been staring at it for eight solid hours, trying and trying to begin, and you can't because focusing on anything important is like trying to grip a handful of water. Because you ran out of your meds. This is what my life is like. If that doe…

Sounds more like detox. I'm regular drug addict and know the feeling.

In this case its called rebound effects.

When you have a medical condition that you treat with medication, a shocking consequence of discontinuing treatment is a return of that medical conditions symptoms.

On the bright side, people don't call you a slacker anymore. Now your just a drug addict.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#220

Post by dustinls »

sneak wrote: post #136
engx wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people on meth enjoy cleaning? There is little difference between meth and Adderall. Taking any type of stimulant even coffee helps people do menial tasks and be more optimistic while doing them. Maybe millions of people are effected by some problem of distraction and lack of focus. But to suggest there's some biochemical reason for this that's cured by amphetamines seems like pseudoscience to me. Drugs do wor…

> There is little difference between meth and Adderall. I posit that you don't yet know enough about neuropharmacology to have beneficial opinions on this topic.

There is little difference between water and hydrogen peroxide.
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