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Why People Should Learn Python

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Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#41

Post by dismantlethesun »

zubspace wrote: post #22
iagooar wrote: post #2

Now that I have a chance to ask: I've always found the def __init__ method with 4 (!) underscores one of the ugliest things I've seen in a programming language. Don't get me wrong: I like Python and know it's truly good, but __why__??

Call me ignorant, but I agree. Having something like __init__ and __new__ is very confusing for a beginner, along with stuff like "__init__.py". It doesn't stop there: Take something like __str__ and __repr__ combined with str(), repr(), vars(), dir(), print(), pprint.pprint()... I have no idea how anyone ever thought it was a good idea to have that many ways to output the content of a variable. Even after all the ti…

> combined with str(), repr(), vars(), dir(), print(), pprint.pprint()

Very true! Though since in practice, most people simply use a graphical debugger or pick one of the above as their champion (pprint.pprint is my personal favourite), then I doubt this situation will ever be changed.

Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#42

Post by jeffwass »

ben_jones wrote: post #32
lcnmrn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a single language that covers all those things and has a pretty syntax.

01000010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00111111 00001101 00001010?

You had me until the CR LF, but clearly the true hacker's choice is just the LF.

Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#43

Post by K0nserv »

I switched to writing python as my main backend/scripting language with my new job. Previously I was using Ruby for most of this stuff with some Go. I must say that so far Python has been a vastly inferior experience for me. The languages are fairly similar all though I prefer the more talkative/english style of ruby and the use of functions over list and dict comprehension.

The thing that really stands out to me though is the poor state of python tooling and the library ecosystem. Having used Rubygems and bundler pip feels like taking an enormous step back. It's much less expressive. It doesn't handle the difference between production only dependencies, regular dependencies and development only dependencies in a good way. It's difficult to differentiate between locked dependencies vs desired dependencies(the Gemfile/Gemfile.lock distinction). PyPi and especially using private PyPi registers is more complex than it is in Ruby. There seems to be fewer nice libraries and they seem to be spread across the web whereas Ruby centralises around GitHub. I also find that Python libraries have lacking or hard to find documentation in many cases.

I wonder how much of this is due to the community spending a lot of time on the unproductive Python2/Python3 debacle instead of moving the language and the ecosystem forward. It seems like Ruby and Python would be in more similar positions had it not been for the problems around the Python 2/Python 3 upgrade. Ruby had the risk of a similar problems in the 1.8 to 1.9 upgrade, but it seems to have worked out better than the Python 2/Python 3 upgrade.

Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#44

Post by kirkdouglas »

wiz21c wrote: post #36
hacker_9 wrote: post #19

Why you shouldn't learn Python: 1. In-consistant syntax. 2. The language uses exceptions to control flow of logic. 3. Divided community, since Python 3+ included breaking changes to the standard. 4. Un-discoverable APIs. You better hope the documentation is bulletproof else the API could change in any which way during runtime. 5. Poor error messages. If an import goes wrong you are not told why, and so on. 6. Ultimat…

1. a matter of tast 2. care to elaborate ? 3. it's not divided, it's evolving from 2 to 3. Java's community is under Oracle's grip, don't know if it's any better... 4. it's not because you can do it that it's worth to do it, so in practice API are just not changing at runtime 5. I can say the same of my industrial strength Java environment... 6. Not a problem since what you do doesn't require speed 7. Ever used PyCha…

> What I miss is something like a good profiler to look at running code.

vprof is quite nice: https://github.com/nvdv/vprof

Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#46

Post by sedeki »

hacker_9 wrote: post #19

Why you shouldn't learn Python: 1. In-consistant syntax. 2. The language uses exceptions to control flow of logic. 3. Divided community, since Python 3+ included breaking changes to the standard. 4. Un-discoverable APIs. You better hope the documentation is bulletproof else the API could change in any which way during runtime. 5. Poor error messages. If an import goes wrong you are not told why, and so on. 6. Ultimat…

What do you mean by inconsistent syntax?

Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#47

Post by rando444 »

greenspot wrote: post #18

Is it just my feeling or are there languages which are preferred on HN? Indicators for languages which are liked by the HN community: - Positive stories get many upvotes and are instantly at the top of HN - Most comments are positive - Frequent coverage on HN about the language Indicators for languages which are not liked by the HN community: - Rants get many upvotes and are instantly at the top of HN - Most comments…

One obvious problem looking at your list is that PHP is ranked so low. This is likely due to the fact that most discussions on this site are not about PHP, but PHP frameworks like Laravel, Symfony, Zend, etc.

Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#49

Post by sjellis »

agounaris wrote: post #29

One my feeling about python is that is a great language for "reference". Probably everybody and write and read it and its already good enough for general programming. There are edges where other languages are better but still is a great language to establish communication among different types of developers

Yes, I've seen Python described as "everybody's second-favourite language". It's not the best at anything, but if your main requirement is a bunch of different people all need to be able to read and edit the same code then it's a good choice.

Re: Why People Should Learn Python

#50

Post by technomancy »

probably_wrong wrote: post #24

For all its virtues, I feel introductions to Python tiptoe around a very important topic: yes, Python is nice and easy, but you'll have to program the Python way too . Try running a nested loop on a non-trivial example, and you can end up spending minutes in what would take milliseconds in any other language. If you want to program in Python, you must get used to the functional paradigm. Not "should", "must". Now, I'…

Weird, I thought that Python was trying to discourage functional programming with its extremely limited lambdas and the proposal to move map and reduce out of the core language.
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