Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 280 posts

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#231

Post by borvo »

fweespeech wrote: post #134
harryh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of very slightly uncomfortable conversations seems like a small price to pay for raising your kids in the manner you deem appropriate.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-... > One afternoon this past April, a Florida mom and dad I'll call Cindy and Fred could not get home in time to let their 11-year-old son into the house. The boy didn't have a key, so he played basketball in the yard. He was alone for 90 minutes. A neighbor called the cops, and when the parents arrived—having been delayed by traffic and rain—they were arre…

The problem here is the police, not the neighbors. Why were they arrested? Did they really break the law? If not, then how were these police trained? If they did break the law, then who is making these nonsense laws?

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#232

Post by mindfulgeek »

tillytal wrote: post #47
mindfulgeek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are plenty of ways people are disconnected from reality, the impact on our culture when kids don't have independence and parents make decisions out of fear has a significant impact on our world.

Count me as reeeeally leery of ascribing harm to an amorphous "cultural impact". Not that I think it's sensible or right that a child might not be allowed to walk around the block, but that in general, as with any other thing other people's parents seem to worry about, the kids are probably going to be fine. Contrasted with our outrageously inverted reaction to the real and fictional (respectively) threats of climate…

In general, kids and young adults are more unhealthy in measurable ways -- cancer, depression, suicide rates -- all higher. While this is just one aspect of what is causing trouble, the lack of independence has been linked to kids making really, really bad choices when they are finally alone. You can also ask any college professor how the quality of problem solving and independence has changed in the past decade or so.

In order to fix a problem, you need to fix the cause, not the effect. Many of the causes of the poor decisions we make are due to conditioning of our childhood. While adults cannot blame their bad decisions on their parents, they certainly can see a root cause of much of their poor choices -- if they can see it at all.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#233

Post by pavel_lishin »

jpna66dd wrote: post #98
rdtsc wrote: post #77

Even since I was 10 or so I would often come back to school on my own. Then let myself into our apartment. Eat some lunch, do homework, play until my parents came home in the evening. I was effectively often alone for about 4 or so hours. I wouldn't let my kid do it here in US. Not because I wouldn't trust them or think it is dangerous. But because I am afraid what neighbors, school, CPS would do. My co-worker let hi…

Hence the power of giving cookies, serving beers and inviting your neighbours to a meal/barbecues when you arrive in a new place. It's a lot harder to call the police when they see your children and share your food. And yes, there may be the crazy one that will still call them, but the neighbourhood will agree _he_ is the crazy one.

From the person you responded to:

> "Well I was worried for the children!". Unless they openly confessed it was because you cut the lawn wrong or they don't like the color of your house, there is nothing you can do to them

My initial thought is that I'd rather have the asshole who hates the way I cut my lawn. I can turn him into a friend. Hell, I can just start cutting my lawn the way he wants.

But the person who is convinced that rapists lurk behind every parked car will be incredibly difficult to convert. They might never agree with me that my kid is as safe riding their bike home from school as they are riding in a car with me.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#234

Post by ch4s3 »

sotojuan wrote: post #143
ch4s3 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I was just in Park Slope 20 minutes ago and saw a few kids ambling about. Yeah, not as many as you see in Crown Heights, but some. I suspect Park Slope kids are a bit more likely to be overscheduled (like suburban kids) than their peers in surrounding neighborhoods.

I admit I don't spend much time there, so just going off what I've seen! I'd be happy to be wrong. I just know here in Sunset Park kids roam free.

That doesn't surprise me. I'm actually headed down there this weekend to eat all the things, super excited.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#235

Post by tropo »

Declanomous wrote: post #164
jkeel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I'm not sure this is an "unreal" risk. I was telling someone a story today about how I was outside with my daughter who was 10 at the time. We live in cul-de-sac and 2 houses down there is a neighborhood pool but across the street (very non-busy street). The neighborhood has some unused wood from building a fence and sent an email out saying that people could take some. My daughter said she wanted to take a wa…

That level of concern is a bit ridiculous for a 10 year old. I was riding my bike all over by myself at that point. Crossing the street with indirect supervision is something I'd trust a 6 year old with. Now maybe I had a charmed childhood, but I'm in my mid twenties, so it's not like I'm talking about growing up in the 50's here. My parents are older though, they did grow up in the 50s, and I I know they view indepe…

One child is kind of a backup for another. If you can be honest with yourself, this becomes very clear once you have several kids of each gender.

Paranoia has risen because so few people have full-sized families these days. Losing one kid has become a tragedy.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#236

Post by JamesBarney »

harryh wrote: post #184
mcherm wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. There are two claims someone might make. "X is common, and it poses a meaningful risk", or "X exists, and it poses a non-zero risk". Anecdotes do not help much with the first claim, but they do help with the second. So perhaps we can agree that child abductions CAN happen, and that CPS overreach DOES occur. Then we can review the real risks of both. I've seen data on the real risk of child abductions. I have…

And in the absence of meaningful data BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY! said the overprotective parent that wouldn't let their 12 year old kid bike 5 blocks to school. Seriously, once you see the parallels between how parents afraid of criminals and parents afraid of CPS talk about the risks you can't un-see them.

Number of kids abducted by strangers per year 115.

Number of kids investigated by the CPS 3.2 million.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196467.pdf

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#237

Post by tropo »

ghaff wrote: post #133
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced. I was under the impression that child-safe pool fences (legal requirement in Australia) have reduced the number of children drowning in the family pool. I was also under the impression that the various ad champagnes over the decades about not leaving children unattended in the bath have also reduced the number of kids drowning in the bath. I was also under the impression that requiring all new home…

In general, at least Western societies have incrementally mandated (through a combination of laws and social norms) all manner of safety devices/education/etc. affecting both children and adults going back decades. And at some point many of them cross from being unheard of to used here and there to commonplace to the point where not complying increasingly seems negligent and reckless. I imagine the vast majority of p…

I should have the option to build a fireproof house without a smoke detector or arc fault interrupter.

Metal, glass, ceramic, stone... there is no need for alarms if you avoid building a house with firewood. Note that this includes the roof support, roof exterior, studs (metal is standard for commercial construction), insulation, cabinets, and flooring. Do things right, and the alarm becomes pointless. All it does is annoy you when you stir-fry or make toast.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#238

Post by lberlin »

mcherm wrote: post #175
lberlin wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like what "CPS would do" is the same logic described in the article itself, but instead of the perceived (but not statistical) risk to the children it's the perceived (but not statistical) risk to the parents of those children. I doubt (don't have real data) that reporting actually happens often at all, but it's so easy to imagine and potentially embarrassing and scary for a parent that they avoid it. So even i…

That's a fairly good argument. I would like to see some actual statistics the frequency of CPS overreacting in an unreasonable fashion. I certainly read many news stories about it, but that is misleading in exactly the same way as the stories we hear about child abductions. I do however have some level of knowledge here. I have spoken with people involved in child protection about questions like this. I have been tol…

I meant the risk of being reported to CPS (or being called out in general) rather than the risk of CPS overreacting. Once it gets to them it sounds like they go by the book, but fair point.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#239

Post by gph »

tedunangst wrote: post #223
gph wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the parent's intent is indicative of their general lifestyle and choices. The point I'm trying to make is that our moral judgements of that intent, while likely being well overinflated, does give us reason to believe that that person's child is at a higher risk when left alone in the environment the parents have given them as compared to the general statistic of perceived risk given to the average child.

Even drug addicts leave the house to go to work. What makes the house safe for a child when that happens?

It isn't. I'm saying under all circumstances the house is less safe for the child based on my assessment of the parents actions. If you were to ask me to rate the risk to a child in their house given only the information that the parent left them to go to work then I wouldn't know they are a drug addict. But if you say one child is left home alone mistakenly by a caring parent versus a parent that intentionally left them home alone to play pokemon go, then I'm going to assume the willfully negligent parents are leaving their kid in a house that is likely less safe.

This research is saying we shouldn't change our assessment of the risks to a child in a situation based on our moral assessment of their parents. I'm saying the fact that the parents are drug addicts or willfully negligent is likely indicative that the child IS at higher risk that the statistical average.

Not sure how I can make this any clearer in any of my responses.

Re: Why Do We Judge Parents for Putting Kids at Perceived But Unreal Risk?

#240

Post by mc32 »

stcredzero wrote: post #198
rdtsc wrote: post #77

Even since I was 10 or so I would often come back to school on my own. Then let myself into our apartment. Eat some lunch, do homework, play until my parents came home in the evening. I was effectively often alone for about 4 or so hours. I wouldn't let my kid do it here in US. Not because I wouldn't trust them or think it is dangerous. But because I am afraid what neighbors, school, CPS would do. My co-worker let hi…

Even since I was 10 or so I would often come back to school on my own. Then let myself into our apartment. Eat some lunch, do homework, play until my parents came home in the evening. I was effectively often alone for about 4 or so hours. I wouldn't let my kid do it here in US. Not because I wouldn't trust them or think it is dangerous. But because I am afraid what neighbors, school, CPS would do. In grade school, my…

My anecdote is that poor people, perhaps because of necessity, do rely more on friends, neighbors and community quite a bit. Whether it's minding the kids, picking someone up, borrowing a car, some food, etc. Poor people don't have the luxury of being proud of their "independence" from others.
Post reply on HN