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Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#81

So the way you feel about interview puzzles is how most people feel about them. It's -stupidly- rare for people to 'figure out' the question in an interview; even those who appear to are just dredging it up from having seen it somewhere. A lot of those style questions are things that took someone weeks to figure out originally, and while we may be better equipped than they were, and so able to figure them out faster…

> It's -stupidly- rare for people to 'figure out' the question in an interview ...really? I've heard of people failing interviews at the Big4 because they solved the problem, but did it sub optimally.

I don't think your anecdotal 2nd hand experience is at odds with lostcolony's point at all.

As much as people say they don't care about the answer and suboptimal is okay, generally it isn't, there's very often a very specific answer they want you to arrive at or you are some version of wrong; so the interview is either failed or succeeds on whether or not the interviewee has seen this problem (or one close enough to be virtually indistinguishable from it) before and can remember how to monkey dance through the steps of it again. So a suboptimal answer ends up being approximately the same as a wrong answer which fits into lostcolony's narrative perfectly well.

So basically you have a few different types of possible interview outcomes with these puzzle-interviews:

#1 Candidate who isn't a good fit (lacks experience, maybe just plain not that bright) fails because he or she is just not a good logical thinker and thus not a very good programmer.

#2 Candidate who is a good fit (has plenty of experience and practical programming knowledge) fails because social anxiety kicks in when confronted with a puzzle they don't recognize at first glance, making it difficult to figure out a solution that they may very well be able to knock out in 15 minutes if they were sitting at home with Google, some books, and nobody (who has important fate deciding power over them) looking over their shoulder.

#3 Candidate who is a good fit who recognizes the problem from having seen it and worked through it before, "solves" it, maybe even solves it in a suboptimal way at first in order to avoid looking like they knew the solution all along because they saw it yesterday on some interview quiz website, then busts out the optimal solution as if it came fully formed from their glorious brain box.

I've been both #2 and #3 plenty of times each and know lots of others in the field who will admit to being both of those people at different times and different places in different interviews. Occasionally you can be a partial #2 and still make it through and get an offer because you already had a bias working in your favor (recommended by someone the interviewer trusts), so the interviewer can start to believe the claptrap that the process is important and not the answer. But with no such bias working in your favor, you're done for!

I'll accept there may be a #4, super genius who can really figure all of these puzzles out on the fly from first principles, but that's like a 0.001%er and even if they exist, it is ridiculous that people are looking for that person to write code for their relatively straightforward CRUD app or social media webwhozit thing.

Ultimately, IMO, the whole system is fucking stupid and everyone who isn't a complete jackass realizes it but nothing ever really gets done to fix it on a systemic level.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#82
> I'm dumb and worthless.

No you are not. You passed the interview and you are working at one of the "Big 4" tech. It's a great achievement there.

> I'll never get a job again because I can't solve the puzzles.

Don't worry those skills are trainable. There are several online resources to improve your puzzle solving skills[0],[1],[2]. It takes time but it's definitely doable. Beside having the current company name on your resume is a really big plus.

If you are too stressful, go our with your wife do something fun with her, visit your friends or your family members. Don't forget to LIVE YOUR LIFE.

[0] - https://www.careercup.com/ [1] - http://www.geeksforgeeks.org/ [2] - https://leetcode.com/

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#83
It sounds like you are not a good personality match for the other people on the team (and vice versa). Some people are very facts / decision driven and will push their opinions a lot more, whereas you sound like someone who is more receptive / consensus driven. If one team accumulates people who work in one way, anyone who doesn't fit that mold could struggle on the team since the behavior expected of them does not come naturally.

How would you feel about being more pushy with your methods / opinions? You can always push back on feedback in pull requests if you feel your contributions are being suppressed. It sounds like your manager might approve of you being "less nice" this way.

The most important thing to remember is that the intelligence you feel you had is still there in exactly the same place. Just because you cannot show your ability on your current team, it doesn't mean the next team won't think you're amazing.

Have you tried moving within your current company?

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#84
Whether or not you pass job interview with company X or company Y says precisely nothing about your value as an employee or as a person.

It's like dating. Either the fit is there or it is not. In most cases not (for most people). Just keep dating till you find there's an easy fit. Same with job searching.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's -stupidly- rare for people to 'figure out' the question in an interview ...really? I've heard of people failing interviews at the Big4 because they solved the problem, but did it sub optimally.

Beware of attempting to extract patterns from self-reported in-person interview failures. Most people who fail at the BigCo interviews I'm familiar with are getting bad reviews for: poor communication, not making sure they understand the problem, not testing their solution, not being willing or able to explain their thought process, being unable to answer "I don't know" when pressed. Occasionally there's someone who…

I really wish that there was some statistics out there that supported your claim. It would make the interview process seem a lot more sane.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#87

It sounds like you are not a good personality match for the other people on the team (and vice versa). Some people are very facts / decision driven and will push their opinions a lot more, whereas you sound like someone who is more receptive / consensus driven. If one team accumulates people who work in one way, anyone who doesn't fit that mold could struggle on the team since the behavior expected of them does not c…

I very much recommend trying to move within your current company, in addition to other strategies.

The Big 4 are, by definition, Big. They are filled with many different teams with many different personalities and team functioning.

If you have non-bad performance, changing teams may be much easier than going through interviews at another company.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#88
There have been a couple points in my life where I felt like you describe. I felt worthless and was experiencing suicidal ideation. The way out for me was challenging assumptions I had been living under.

One thing I suggest for you is to challenge the assumption that working for a Big 4 company equals success. There are a lot of alternatives out there. A lot of people find success and value working for companies that produces things they are into, that may not be traditional tech companies. These places tend to have a lot of trouble finding technologists, because everyone wants to work Big 4, at an established unicorn, or at a hot, rising pre-unicorn. There are companies out there that don't do puzzles. As a hiring manager, I think they're worthless.

When I was in a dark place, I didn't seek professional help, but I'd recommend it to anybody who is depressed. I think I was playing with fire struggling to fix myself. I got lucky that I found my way out. I don't suggest taking that chance.

I also suggest seeking couples' counseling to help you and your wife get on the same page. It truly sounds like some time off to regroup could make a massive difference. Having someone help you two unpack your underlying goals and help you think outside of the box could be very helpful.

It's not an accident that you got your job. You are smart. Hang in there. Take it from somebody who's been there, there is light down the tunnel, and there's so much joy to be had on the other side.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#89

Interview puzzles are so hit-or-miss. No matter how many of them I solve, I always stutter when I'm faced with a new one. If the problem is new, it either "clicks" right away or I bomb the interview. No middle ground. It may helpful to consider that the current interview system is, literally, designed to make you fail. That is to say: not with 100% certainty -- and on some level, they want at least some of the candid…

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Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#90
post #44

So the way you feel about interview puzzles is how most people feel about them. It's -stupidly- rare for people to 'figure out' the question in an interview; even those who appear to are just dredging it up from having seen it somewhere. A lot of those style questions are things that took someone weeks to figure out originally, and while we may be better equipped than they were, and so able to figure them out faster…

> It's -stupidly- rare for people to 'figure out' the question in an interview; even those who appear to are just dredging it up from having seen it somewhere. Isn't the point of those questions more to evaluate your problem solving skills (coming from someone who has never been up against those questions), and not to determine if you can actually solve the problem, but how you're able to justify your answer?

Allegedly, yes. But the person who has seen it before is able to arrive at an answer, have it be ideal, and justify it, a lot more readily than someone who has never seen it before. That's what the OP was even saying; if he's seen it before he does fine, if he hasn't he struggles and freezes up. That describes a LOT of people. It's also why I tend to interview with trivial questions, things that algorithmically have no trick at all to them (or we give them the algorithm).
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