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Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#71
post #43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are culturally incentivized (...) to be desperate to win the approval of their peers by how bulging their foreheads are While I largely agree with your main thrust, I must take issue with this. Many of us (older generation perhaps?) were culturally incentivized to not exhibit any of our nerdiness, and were ostracized or worse for doing so. Many of us developed a "dumber" external persona and explicitly avoided demons…

Even amongst your peers? In the inner circle? You don't have the urge to stomp-a-nerd that encroaches on your territory? Maybe you don't personally, but I'm positive this sentiment exists from others in your generation.

I certainly don't, although I'm but a single datapoint.

I'll fight hard for my ideas, but not at the cost of missing what other people have to say. I'm reasonably old (nearing 50), I've been coding professionally since before college, and have a reasonably good head on my shoulders.

But so do other people, and ignoring what they're saying, or dismissing it because I'm not saying it, is a lost opportunity. Even if that opportunity ends up cementing my owb belief. I owe it to them, and more selfishly, to myself, to consider the possibility I'm wrong.

(A verrrrrrry remote possibility, but ya' never know ;)

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#72
I think you are placing too much weight on your employment. It's good to have a job, but it shouldn't be your sole focus. Technology can be horrible because conferences and communities glamourise these big technology companies. You are buying into that hype, yet the reality is different.

I suggest maybe looking for work with an interesting business that isn't as well known - one that doesn't have weird, abstract puzzles during the interview process. A place where you can build your confidence, rather than be a cog in a multinational machine.

As for the depression/anxiety. You sound like you are over thinking things. Criticising elements of your life, rather than accepting them. The lack of confidence from your job will be making it worse. Read about mindfulness, it's a collection of techniques that teaches you to look at your surroundings in vivid detail without making judgements, and to just sit down without thoughts running through your head. The depression and anxiety will slowly fade away as you get used to thinking in a standard fashion.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#74

So the way you feel about interview puzzles is how most people feel about them. It's -stupidly- rare for people to 'figure out' the question in an interview; even those who appear to are just dredging it up from having seen it somewhere. A lot of those style questions are things that took someone weeks to figure out originally, and while we may be better equipped than they were, and so able to figure them out faster…

> It's -stupidly- rare for people to 'figure out' the question in an interview ...really? I've heard of people failing interviews at the Big4 because they solved the problem, but did it sub optimally.

Beware of attempting to extract patterns from self-reported in-person interview failures. Most people who fail at the BigCo interviews I'm familiar with are getting bad reviews for:

poor communication, not making sure they understand the problem, not testing their solution, not being willing or able to explain their thought process, being unable to answer "I don't know" when pressed.

Occasionally there's someone who claims to know something and very clearly doesn't.

Phone screens generally filter out most of the people who know no data structures or algorithms.

Of course, every hiring process is different, so there's some variation within and across companies, but I think a lot of geeks think they screwed up the tech when they really screwed up the communication.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#75
Do not let yourself be defined by your job. Even though you spend most of your waking hours at work, you are still more than that job. Any job. Even if you are the weakest link at work (someone has to be), you are still more than that.

Seek validation outside of work. Collect that Big 4 paycheck and remember to enjoy the rest of the day. You are still living a better existence than perhaps 90% of this Earth.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#76
post #39

You have classic signs of depression. Perhaps major depression. The worst part of depression is that it clouds normal thought processes. That's probably why you can't perform as you once did. Find a way to see a psychiatrist you feel comfortable around. Go with a family or friend if that helps get you over the hump. So many high achievers I know go through this. You're not alone, and with proper help you'll get throu…

> Find a way to see a psychiatrist you feel comfortable around. For some reason there can be a stigma around that profession but PLEASE don't let that deter you, as it will be tremendously helpful. They can help you see your true self when things seem cloudy.

On top of that, I'd keep trying until you find someone you click with. A lot of people get discouraged when the first doctor or counselor they speak with isn't a good fit.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#77

Mate, you self-worth is being jeopardised by (may I say) your own deluded thoughts and your reliance on external validation. When I first joined IBM research right out of school I thought that everyone would be some Einstein and I would be blown away. And at first I was, with everyone talking acronyms and things that just flew over my head. But over time, I realised the place was run by only a few truly smart people…

IBM research and pro tennis. Has to be trolling!

I was on a tennis scholarship and played a season of pro tournaments until it was apparent that tennis was not my future. Joined IBM upon graduation. Why is this not plausible?

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#78
Remember that the Big 4 are some of the most selective in the industry and that even they admit that their puzzles have zero predictive power about a person's intelligence or abilities.

You really sound like you're just suffering from burnout.

Take a break. Cut loose. Go tell your wife to go fuck herself if she can't understand that how your burnout is effecting your mental health (But do tell her about your burnout first. Hopefully, your wife will be your strongest pillar of support while you recuperate. If not, find a different support network.)

Remember that you did make it into one of the Big 4 and that that's more than enough to impress a lot of people. Also, remember that when it comes to criticism, there's at least as much B.S. and power-plays as there is constructive consideration, especially in more competitive environments.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#79
Interview puzzles are so hit-or-miss. No matter how many of them I solve, I always stutter when I'm faced with a new one. If the problem is new, it either "clicks" right away or I bomb the interview. No middle ground.

It may helpful to consider that the current interview system is, literally, designed to make you fail.

That is to say: not with 100% certainty -- and on some level, they want at least some of the candidates to succeed, some of the time -- but on another level, it quite deliberately designed to (1) quickly segregated candidates into easily identifiable "badass 10xer" and "worthless poser" categories, and (2) do so with a high, if queasily acceptable false negative rate; along with an allegedly low false negative rate.

That is: it's known to be noisy in both directions; but it's generally considered to be OK -- and many people say this quite openly -- to flush out a whole lot of potentially good candidates if it minimizes the chances of passing a single bad candidate. So it's not that they want you to fail outright -- just that if you aren't clearly and immediately identifiable as their guy/gal, then they want you to "fail fast", as the saying goes, and to do so in a way that you can be easily labelled as a "failure" and a "washout".

Hence -- the whiteboarding sesions; the logic puzzles; the Fermi problems; the "no matter what answer I give they'l find a way to pick it it apart" style of questioning.

Point being -- yes it's a game; yes the rules have changed significantly in recent years; and yes, it's very much rigged, or more delicately put: cleverly optimized to save time and resources (including attention and emotional costs) on the hiring side, at the expense of the those same resources on the candidate's side.

My thoughts are descending into the darkest reaches. Death doesn't seem so bad anymore. Then I don't have to think about all this.

I don't know where I went wrong. I used to be intelligent. I used to be liked by my teams. I used to be good at puzzles.

Now I'm dumb and worthless.

I don't have the option to stop working for a while. I have the savings for it, but it's unacceptable to my wife.

I don't know what to do.

I'm very sorry to be hearing all of this. The good news is the current fad for puzzles and aggressive grilling session is, after all, just a fad. Not all hiring sessions are run this way; a great many aren't -- just keep rolling the dice, and eventually you'll get a fair shot, and find yourself sitting across from the table from someone who treats you like an equal and an intelligent human being from the get go. Rather than a secretly incompetent poser / washout / has-been / never-was waiting to be exposed.

Because it is after all just a game. And you only need the dice to turn up once for you to get out of the current rut you're in.

Re: Ask HN: Failed interview, feeling unemployable and depressed – what do I do?

#80
This is an extremely common situation. No doubt you are not alone at your company, but no one will admit it.

This is just a temporary down cycle in your life. It's hard to see now but things will get better again in time. While you're waiting it out you must see a pdoc to get treatment.

You are not a loser, less capable, or less intelligent. It's all an illusion created by your brain and it's fixable.

Also you must realize a lot of big 4 interviews are bullshit and don't mean anything. Don't believe me? Read about how Google realized its own interviews were bullshit: https://blog.stackoverflow.com/2016/02/the-stack-overflow-in...

So from a scientific perspective, you actually have no right to criticize yourself based on admittedly invalid criteria.

So maybe you want to believe me, but are not sure if I truly understand your "big 4" level of difficulty. Well surprise! Been there done that, worked with PhDs in math/cs, people from Stanford, Harvard and the rest, people claiming an IQ of 180, etc. My conclusion? Everything above applies no matter whar company you're at.

Again, your abilities are not the problem. You are suffering from insecurities and depression which are fixable.

Here's an experiment for you: When you go to see your local pdoc, ask her how many people she knows like you at the same damn "big 4" company you work at, suffering silently together on the same campus.

Hang tough - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_too_shall_pass

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