Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right” • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#31

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 8:37 PM UTC

justinlardinois wrote: post #28

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biases, prejudices and so on are subtle and take a while to unlearn. If you want to get rid of them, you essentially have to interrogate your own thoughts, for better or worse. If you're not conscious of a bias, you can't get rid of it. It doesn't suck the fun out of life.

I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article meant by "right" thoughts and feelings. But you're spot on. It's difficult to unlearn something that you never knew you were learning in the first place, because you just take it as fact or how the world is. Confronting your own biases is uncomfortable, but it's well worth it,…

> I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article meant by "right" thoughts and feelings.

It's funny to me, since I do, to some extent, try to recognise my prejudices in my thoughts, but it's not been a problem for me. Whereas I actually have had problems with worrying about whether my thoughts and feelings are “right” in the sense that the OP is talking about.

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#32

Post by narrator » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC

I think the problem is that sometimes emotions can have nothing to do with reality. It's just a brain chemistry problem and only fixing the brain chemistry aspect will help. That can be done through exercise, meditation, supplements or drugs. In certain instances there's even a correctable problem, such as low grade heavy metal poisoning, that can be permanently fixed. When people beat themselves up over brain chemistry problems, it just makes it worse. It's like mentally beating yourself over not being able to walk with a broken leg.

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#33

Post by sebringj » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

debaserab2 wrote: post #20

sebringj wrote: post #18

Completely removing religion and pc correctness and cultural obligations from my life fairly early on resulted in a very light weight approach to life and the removal of inner chatter bullshit. Do what makes sense to you to get the best result in the purpose of life you have chosen. Basic morality has already been ingrained in us through evolution and is quite adequate by itself. Why we then we must slap words on it…

> Basic morality has already been ingrained in us through evolution and is quite adequate by itself. How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion?

@bholzer put it nicely. Google "chimps and bonobos demonstrate morality". Cooperation increased survivability and that generally has affected our acceptance of what is intrinsic to what feels right. Later religion slapped on meaning to it via super natural explanation which was the best bullshit they could come up with at the time. I get up voted on PC answers by the way but I should have cited some examples.

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#34

Post by sakopov » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 8:49 PM UTC

"Instead, the paradoxical key to true happiness seems to be accepting unhappiness - not forcing yourself to feel how you don't."

I don't know about that. The key to true happiness is accepting that happiness is the path not the destination. When you realize that life becomes a heck of a lot easier to live.

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#35

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 9:13 PM UTC

debaserab2 wrote: post #20

sebringj wrote: post #18

Completely removing religion and pc correctness and cultural obligations from my life fairly early on resulted in a very light weight approach to life and the removal of inner chatter bullshit. Do what makes sense to you to get the best result in the purpose of life you have chosen. Basic morality has already been ingrained in us through evolution and is quite adequate by itself. Why we then we must slap words on it…

> Basic morality has already been ingrained in us through evolution and is quite adequate by itself. How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion?

[deleted]

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#36

Post by johnnyhillbilly » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #25

FreedomToCreate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is assuming a bias is completely a bad thing. The human brain as evolved many heuristics to help it lower cognitive load and get things done faster. As with anything, this can have good and bad outcomes, but trying to make yourself unbiased is ridiculous and non-sensical. The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased.

> As with anything, this can have good and bad outcomes Yes. Sometimes those bad outcomes are pernicious, and you may want to limit their effects. > but trying to make yourself unbiased is ridiculous and non-sensical. Why would it be so? Sure, you can't make yourself completely unbiased and lacking in prejudice. But you can try to be more aware of how you act in different situations so that biases you consider unhelp…

>> The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased. >What?

I think what is meant is that your analysis of people is different when they say the "right" things. The wife-murdering Earth Day founder comes to mind.

As Dag Hammarsköld said: It is much more difficult to care about those close to you than those far away.

I have seen plenty of people that use implicit accusations as a means of getting ahead. White, "angry", old men is a term that's been popular lately - I will use that as an example.

Are all old, white men "angry"? Are only the old, white men that disagree with the speaker "angry"? Are old, white men angrier than old men in general? Than old, white women? Than [menopausal|child-caring|single] women? Is there some skew in who brings their opinions to market? In who is heard?

I say that the people that the most seductively claim some one is biased, are those most likely to sweep their own biases under the rug.

Furthermore, I claim it is a much better goal to be consciously fair in one's dealings, than to seek some mythical state of "biased-less-ness". It seems more work, but it truly brings greater rewards to you and the people you deal with.

Trying to be "unbiased" leads to exactly zero good, because it isn't how the human mind functions. I will put my own family before the stranger on the street. That doesn't mean I won't help the stranger on the street that I _see_ needs it. I need a functioning mind for that, and this college nonsense about bias is something I had to unlearn to do so, as it leads to cowardice at the hint of personal danger or embarrassment.

(Unless, of course, you dont't perceive a real threat, but just some poor sod you can lecture about how morally superior you are.)

[EDIT: Spelling]

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#37

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 9:52 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

seibelj wrote: post #14

I have met people who not only police everyone's behavior and speech for minor deviations from political correctness, but are constantly worried about how their thoughts are not meeting their own high standards. There is a difference between saying things in a public forum and thinking them when you see something crazy on the street. I just think living that way would be totally exhausting and remove a lot of fun fro…

Biases, prejudices and so on are subtle and take a while to unlearn. If you want to get rid of them, you essentially have to interrogate your own thoughts, for better or worse. If you're not conscious of a bias, you can't get rid of it. It doesn't suck the fun out of life.

Depends on who you are. Excessive interrogation of your own behaviour can be a crippling anxiety disorder.

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#38

Post by duaneb » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 9:58 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #14

I have met people who not only police everyone's behavior and speech for minor deviations from political correctness, but are constantly worried about how their thoughts are not meeting their own high standards. There is a difference between saying things in a public forum and thinking them when you see something crazy on the street. I just think living that way would be totally exhausting and remove a lot of fun fro…

Have you considered they aren't out to ruin your life? Seems narcissistic to assume it's about you. Sometimes (most of the time?) you can be generically terrible instead of personally terrible.

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#39

Post by duaneb » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 10:00 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #37

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biases, prejudices and so on are subtle and take a while to unlearn. If you want to get rid of them, you essentially have to interrogate your own thoughts, for better or worse. If you're not conscious of a bias, you can't get rid of it. It doesn't suck the fun out of life.

Depends on who you are. Excessive interrogation of your own behaviour can be a crippling anxiety disorder.

Sure. Lack of awareness is even worse.

Re: Stop the inner struggle over whether your thoughts and feelings are “right”

#40

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 10:01 PM UTC

johnnyhillbilly wrote: post #36

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As with anything, this can have good and bad outcomes Yes. Sometimes those bad outcomes are pernicious, and you may want to limit their effects. > but trying to make yourself unbiased is ridiculous and non-sensical. Why would it be so? Sure, you can't make yourself completely unbiased and lacking in prejudice. But you can try to be more aware of how you act in different situations so that biases you consider unhelp…

>> The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased. >What? I think what is meant is that your analysis of people is different when they say the "right" things. The wife-murdering Earth Day founder comes to mind. As Dag Hammarsköld said: It is much more difficult to care about those close to you than those far away. I have seen plenty of people that use implicit…

> Furthermore, I claim it is a much better goal to be consciously fair in one's dealings, than to seek some mythical state of "biased-less-ness".

I'm not seeking a mythical state of being unbiased. I'd say it's more like what you say, trying to be consciously fair. I'm aware that I'm likely to be prejudiced against certain kinds of people, so I try my hardest to be fair when I deal with them.