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Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

arstechnica.com

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Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#91

Post by derefr »

cheald wrote: post #30
wcarss wrote: post #16

The loss and subsequent banning of maps and map users made nearly everyone I know stop playing, especially in the total absence of an official replacement or a compelling reason to continue. Hearing my map ding was enough cause to make me leap out of my chair and run to the nearby park at midnight to catch something I wanted, and there'd usually be the usual lure-users and a few map-users out there at the same time.…

This is on the money. Niantic made it harder and more frustrating to play their game, and people stopped playing it. They have utterly failed to understand what their playerbase wants, and people are falling off. The maps really drove it into overdrive, especially with the presence of "nests", because it allowed people to figure out where they needed to be, and would then congregate there. By taking out the maps, Nia…

> By taking out the maps, Niantic has turned their scavenger hunt into a scratch-off lotto ticket ... they broke the effort-reward cycle

You're phrasing this almost as if Niantic wanted there to be third-party mapping apps in the first place, and then changed its mind.

The game Niantic released doesn't have mapping, and didn't intend to have an open API. This can be read as an implicit statement that the game design that Niantic thought people would enjoy playing, doesn't involve knowing where pokemon are.

Presuming there was at least one actual game designer involved in creating the game, there's likely already some sort of effort-reward cycle built into the game that doesn't involve mapping. It might not be one you like playing, but that probably means that you were not the audience Niantic designed (and playability-tested) the game for.

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#92

Post by khedoros »

duaneb wrote: post #79
khedoros wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us who did use maps--most everyone I know--we didn't consider it cheating. The original form of the game sucked, and the maps worked like a community-made patch to work around some of the shortcomings. Why bother playing when the entertaining part of the game is so diffuse? With maps, I'd gather a few coworkers for a safari when something cool popped up. Now we sit at our desks, catching the occasional t…

Well if everyone is playing a different game, it's no wonder nobody is having any fun. There is certainly no way for me to interact with you in a fair way if you're cheating past the limitations I'm enjoying.

I don't see a problem with that. Different strokes for different folks. What I'm enjoying is available to you, but you've chosen to limit yourself to a constricted set of abilities, because you (apparently) enjoy the limitations.

Let's ignore the maps; pretend they never existed. I can drive wherever I want, but my time is limited. A child's time is less limited, but their location is more limited. A college student might be a mix of the two: mobile, with some significant free time. Another variable: location. In a rural location, there might not be a pokestop within several miles. In an urban location, there might be three within range of your home's family room.

From my perspective, people are already playing a bunch of different games, based on available time, mobility, location, and density of other nearby players.

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#93

Post by squeaky-clean »

riskable wrote: post #71
mjevans wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The update also (at least on my Nexus 6P) made GPS related issues dramatically worse; it's like they don't comprehend that in a place with a lot of tall buildings or trees you're not going to get a 'solid' GPS lock a majority of the time. Combine that with a UI popup (mid capture interaction no less) that steels input focus (it stops your ball toss), telling the user something they LITERALLY have no control over fixi…

The GPS issues have nothing to do with getting a GPS fix. It's just a plain ol' bug. My GPS is spot-on when using any app other than Pokémon Go which pretty regularly states that the GPS isn't working when I'm holding my phone in my hands to an open sky with no clouds. It doesn't matter what I'm doing or what device I'm using it always shows that GPS error message every 30 seconds to 1 minute.

> The GPS issues have nothing to do with getting a GPS fix. It's just a plain ol' bug.

GPS on phones aren't that accurate, especially downtown, but most applications will filter the data because of that. Ever use Google Maps for directions and make a turn different from what the app is telling you to do? Your car icon will continue down the "correct" path for 15-30 seconds before re-adjusting to the new route. This actually happens all the time, it's just more likely that your GPS is misreporting you as 20m east instead of you taking a different turn, so the app holds off on updating the display until it is more sure.

So it's a combination of the two factors. But most apps handle it muuuuch better than P:GO does.

Here's a link I was able to find on running apps specifically. Apps that deal with you being on foot will obviously have a harder time determining exactly where you are, as opposed to apps for driving where you're moving faster, in a straight line, and down a grid of streets.

http://radianttap.com/blog/2012/comparing-accuracy-of-the-gp...

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#94

Post by foota »

derefr wrote: post #91
cheald wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is on the money. Niantic made it harder and more frustrating to play their game, and people stopped playing it. They have utterly failed to understand what their playerbase wants, and people are falling off. The maps really drove it into overdrive, especially with the presence of "nests", because it allowed people to figure out where they needed to be, and would then congregate there. By taking out the maps, Nia…

> By taking out the maps, Niantic has turned their scavenger hunt into a scratch-off lotto ticket ... they broke the effort-reward cycle You're phrasing this almost as if Niantic wanted there to be third-party mapping apps in the first place, and then changed its mind. The game Niantic released doesn't have mapping, and didn't intend to have an open API. This can be read as an implicit statement that the game design…

That's unfortunate for them, because while they may not have been the users they wanted (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12306284) there were literally millions of them.

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#95

Post by derefr »

khedoros wrote: post #75
duaneb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us who didn't use maps--most everyone I know--it was this advantage others had that made it terribly non-fun to play. Why bother playing when everyone is cheating?

For those of us who did use maps--most everyone I know--we didn't consider it cheating. The original form of the game sucked, and the maps worked like a community-made patch to work around some of the shortcomings. Why bother playing when the entertaining part of the game is so diffuse? With maps, I'd gather a few coworkers for a safari when something cool popped up. Now we sit at our desks, catching the occasional t…

I don't quite understand the impulse to "fix" the game, though. As much as it's a commercial product, it's also a piece of art. Would you "fix" a movie? Or would you just avoid seeing it? Or—if you happen to be in film yourself—would you get some people together and make your own?

I'm serious on that last one: the people who made the pokemon mapping apps could all get together and have enough pooled mobile-fronted and realtime-GIS backend knowledge to make a full-on clone of the game. (Maybe not with the original's art assets, but those burn battery-life anyway. Use some cute 2D pixel-art like the first-gen games; people's nostalgia will override their aesthetics!)

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#96

Post by khedoros »

blkhp19 wrote: post #87
khedoros wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us who did use maps--most everyone I know--we didn't consider it cheating. The original form of the game sucked, and the maps worked like a community-made patch to work around some of the shortcomings. Why bother playing when the entertaining part of the game is so diffuse? With maps, I'd gather a few coworkers for a safari when something cool popped up. Now we sit at our desks, catching the occasional t…

Does it matter if you considered it cheating or not? You augmented the main, core part of the game to make it easier to catch pokemon. That sounds like some form of cheating to me.

It matters to me, although probably not to anyone else.

> You augmented the main, core part of the game to make it easier to catch pokemon.

And it improved a flawed game (for me) without harming your experience.

> That sounds like some form of cheating to me.

In that I gained an advantage over what the game provides? Yes. In that I gained an advantage over you or any other player? No. I'm not in competition with anyone. I consider it a fairly solitary game (don't see the point of teams and gyms).

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#97

Post by duaneb »

khedoros wrote: post #92
duaneb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if everyone is playing a different game, it's no wonder nobody is having any fun. There is certainly no way for me to interact with you in a fair way if you're cheating past the limitations I'm enjoying.

I don't see a problem with that. Different strokes for different folks. What I'm enjoying is available to you, but you've chosen to limit yourself to a constricted set of abilities, because you (apparently) enjoy the limitations. Let's ignore the maps; pretend they never existed. I can drive wherever I want, but my time is limited. A child's time is less limited, but their location is more limited. A college student…

It's a competitive game, though. By "unlimiting" yourself you're changing the rules for competitive play for everyone. It's a very selfish way to play the game. It's a relief you've stopped.

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#98

Post by JeremyBanks »

derefr wrote: post #91
cheald wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is on the money. Niantic made it harder and more frustrating to play their game, and people stopped playing it. They have utterly failed to understand what their playerbase wants, and people are falling off. The maps really drove it into overdrive, especially with the presence of "nests", because it allowed people to figure out where they needed to be, and would then congregate there. By taking out the maps, Nia…

> By taking out the maps, Niantic has turned their scavenger hunt into a scratch-off lotto ticket ... they broke the effort-reward cycle You're phrasing this almost as if Niantic wanted there to be third-party mapping apps in the first place, and then changed its mind. The game Niantic released doesn't have mapping, and didn't intend to have an open API. This can be read as an implicit statement that the game design…

The game didn't have maps, but it did have the "footprints" features that would let you zero-in on nearby Pokemon. That's been broken almost since release, and a general replacement still hadn't shipped the last time I checked. The maps were a hack to deal with a broken game, and they eliminated them before addressing the root motivation.

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#99

Post by mixedCase »

jtmcmc wrote: post #73
jampa wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why they don't make their own pokemon map, they hear a lot of feedback and still they choose to act against it. I made a map that scanned my whole city just for fun and leaning, released and showed to a couple of friends. The next day I was flooded with Facebook invites with people telling me how they got a rare pokemon or requesting for a expansion on their cities. People kept sending messages when it we…

I wouldn't be surprised if they were but it takes some time to actually release a game feature.

Doing something like giving the users a poll to say "are you excited about the upcoming map feature that does X?" would be enough for them to inform the users of what they're working on and gauge interest at the same time.

Re: Pokémon Go loses its luster, sheds more than 10M users

#100

Post by mixedCase »

jampa wrote: post #89
jtmcmc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were but it takes some time to actually release a game feature.

I would hope so, but the CEO already said he was against it: F: How do you feel about Poké Radar and things that tap into the code and show where Pokémon are spawning? JH: Yeah, I don’t really like that. Not a fan. We have priorities right now but they might find in the future that those things may not work. People are only hurting themselves because it takes some fun out of the game Source: http://www.forbes.com/sit…

>People are only hurting themselves because it takes some fun out of the game

Well it sounds like they were wrong about it.

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