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Overselling A.D.H.D.

nytimes.com

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Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#191

Post by jordanlev »

soylentcola wrote: post #65
flogic wrote: post #22

I'm generally not fond of this sort of article and this one is no exception. They present a case that drug companies like selling drugs but we knew that. What they don't do is present a good case that ADHD is actually overdiagnosed. The world in general is not very good at accepting psychological conditions. ADHD is commonly regarded as "youth", "laziness", or "lacking discipline". Watching a loved one fight to focus…

Yep. Dealt with this my entire life. Teachers, doctors, and counselors suggested I see someone regarding a possible ADD diagnosis all through school as my supposed "brilliance" (their words, not mine) came along with a seemingly unbeatable tendency to zone out in class, constantly talk to other kids when I knew I was supposed to be listening, and flat out forget to do major assignments while I just sort of daydreamed…

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I'm curious (after reading the book review): when you saw the psychiatrist, was the medication the only treatment? Or was it combined with other (non-medicinal) treatments as well?

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#192

Post by cryoshon »

engx wrote: post #120
anexprogrammer wrote: post #58

As someone in my 5th decade, with lifelong ADHD (though given my age it did not exist in my youth, and was only diagnosed relatively recently), I'm wary of backing away from treatments until we actually do have real viable alternatives. It took far too long to get ADHD widely recognised, and even now it's often more likely to be received with humour than real recognition. Much more research, especially on other possi…

Why do people on meth enjoy cleaning? There is little difference between meth and Adderall. Taking any type of stimulant even coffee helps people do menial tasks and be more optimistic while doing them. Maybe millions of people are effected by some problem of distraction and lack of focus. But to suggest there's some biochemical reason for this that's cured by amphetamines seems like pseudoscience to me. Drugs do wor…

okay well lets delve into the science here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27489770 "Quantifying patterns of brain activity: Distinguishing unaffected siblings from participants with ADHD and healthy individuals."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27471442 "Neural Biomarkers for Dyslexia, ADHD, and ADD in the Auditory Cortex of Children."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27422412 "Network Structure among Brain Systems in Adult ADHD is Uniquely Modified by Stimulant Administration."

as you can see there is no ambiguity that ADHD is a biochemical and neural network-grounded disorder backed by a galaxy of studies. the sad fact is that stimulants don't work for up to 20% of people with ADHD, dooming them to dysfunction.

and yes, the pharmas are greedy, and promote overdiagnosis. and yes, modern life promotes ADHD-like symptoms-- but the whole point of ADHD is that it's a priori relative to life experience.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#193

Post by vainguard »

jwdunne wrote: post #188
vainguard wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This medical condition is called withdrawal. You are right in that discontinuing ADHD medication can lead to withdrawal symptoms. But you are dead wrong in that ADHD does not disappear after withdrawal. As it would if it were a drug addiction. ADHD was there before taking medication, and it will persist long after stopping medication. (If we assume the diagnosis was correct.)

It can indeed cause withdrawal symptoms but not so bad since psychiatrists suggest "treatment holidays", where you are free to choose not to take them for a few weeks. Other psychiatric medications are often withdrawn slowly. For example, a patient on weekend leave in hospital would be called straight back to the ward if they lose their prescribed benzodiazepines e.g smashing a bottle of solution, due to withdrawal.…

I just realized that my post was extremely easy to misread :/ I hope it's fixed now.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#194

Post by MichaelGG »

basch wrote: post #171
MichaelGG wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent it's very hard. Our governess mentioned our one daughter was having difficulty focusing. So I did a trial with just 5mg/day Ritalin. Week on, week off. The difference is huge. It's a really hard call. I'm worried about the effects long term, but she does so much better with it. If she was in a school instead of with a private tutor, I'm guessing she'd be way worse off. FWIW I used to think giving meds to…

school is so boring we give children focus drugs and are surprised when they are able to focus? and we dont talk about fixing school, because the short term pragmatic decision is to adapt the brilliant kid to the shitty environment, instead of the inverse.

I don't think her school is too boring. It's her and her sister and a full time teacher just for them. They have near unlimited flexibility in scheduling and approaching things. She goes on about how fun it is; they both love it. It's just she can't seem to focus on any task without the meds. She really likes taking them, hence making me more conflicted.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#195

Post by jwdunne »

vainguard wrote: post #193
jwdunne wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can indeed cause withdrawal symptoms but not so bad since psychiatrists suggest "treatment holidays", where you are free to choose not to take them for a few weeks. Other psychiatric medications are often withdrawn slowly. For example, a patient on weekend leave in hospital would be called straight back to the ward if they lose their prescribed benzodiazepines e.g smashing a bottle of solution, due to withdrawal.…

I just realized that my post was extremely easy to misread :/ I hope it's fixed now.

I think mine was too since I was agreeing with you, ADHD is most definitely not a symptom of stimulant withdrawal.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#196

Post by [deleted] »

vainguard wrote: post #193
jwdunne wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can indeed cause withdrawal symptoms but not so bad since psychiatrists suggest "treatment holidays", where you are free to choose not to take them for a few weeks. Other psychiatric medications are often withdrawn slowly. For example, a patient on weekend leave in hospital would be called straight back to the ward if they lose their prescribed benzodiazepines e.g smashing a bottle of solution, due to withdrawal.…

I just realized that my post was extremely easy to misread :/ I hope it's fixed now.

[deleted]

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#197

Post by Kenji »

jrapdx3 wrote: post #86

Since I've had the responsibility of managing the treatment of at least a thousand adults and adolescents with ADHD, it's a subject I've studied quite a bit. And as the medical literature attests ADHD is probably among the most researched of all medical conditions and its reality is unquestioned based on the scientific literature. When people say "I don't believe in ADHD" I point out it's not like believing in Santa…

It's funny that you compare ADHD to cancer. You can see a cancerous growth. You can feel it. There are tests for it.

Criteria for ADHD are completely symptom-based. There is no infecting agent, no parasite, no detectable chemical poisoning or imbalance, no irregular growth, nothing! There is no standardized physiological test. You just observe how a person behaves and then say they have ADHD - a disease whose criteria humans defined completely arbitrarily. What qualifies as a mental health disorder says a lot about a society. Call me an ADHD-denier but I remain skeptical. I think ADHD is mostly an issue of searching the problem within the brain when it's everywhere in our society except the brain.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#198

Post by joshuata »

sseal wrote: post #156
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine this: you're an adult professional, sitting at your desk looking at a freelance work assignment that needs to be done by tomorrow, weeping with frustration because you've been staring at it for eight solid hours, trying and trying to begin, and you can't because focusing on anything important is like trying to grip a handful of water. Because you ran out of your meds. This is what my life is like. If that doe…

three things: 1. You do not enjoy your work, and thus have no motivation. 2. Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. 3. You have built a mental dependency that you must take amphetamines to "focus", and this hinders your real ability to focus. All of those things ^^^ I have experienced at one point or another in my life. You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not…

I have struggled with ADHD for my entire life. I don't think you realize how it can affect you.

I started to take medication after nearly failing out of college. It was physically impossible for me to study for more than 40 minutes; I would fall asleep no matter where I was. It was not a matter of motivation or dedication. I was hitting a physical barrier that I could get around any other way.

I agree that there is over-diagnosis is a problem, but especially as a person who came around to medication as a last resort, it is very offensive to say that I don't need it. I avoided it for years, but within a few months I was able to use all of the strategies I had learned, coupled with the meds, to seriously turn my life around. I went from academic probation (GPA in the 2.2 range) to top of my classes with about 15 mg of adderall a day. I've tried placebos, I've tried therapy, but I would not be able to do the work I do today without drugs.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#199

Post by wvenable »

metaphorm wrote: post #169
dragonwriter wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so what? My son had a bladder infection, and I certainly endorsed the use of drugs to treat that. If there is a real and identifiable condition interfering with a child's quality of life for which there is concrete reason to think that a drug is an effective and remedy for which the risk of other side effects is mild compared to the expected benefit, why shouldn't responsible adults endorse drugging children in…

bladder infection is an infection by a microbial disease. it's a pathogen caused by another organism that shouldn't be present in a healthy body. what exactly is ADHD? what is being treated, anyway? this is medicating for "normality", which is another way of saying our society is defining and enforcing (with mind-altering drugs) a very narrow band of acceptable personalities and behavioral responses to environmental…

Perhaps you have a point. But in most cases when medication is prescribed it's because the condition is debilitating. I can speak from experience that when a child is incapable of sustained play, overwhelmed by the interactions, and has trouble with going to the bathroom that we aren't talking about a narrow band of acceptability. Your comment, like so many others here, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the real problem.

I've seen the absolutely amazing affects of non-stimulant ADD medication and it's not chemical enforcement of normal, it is treatment of a disease.

Re: Overselling A.D.H.D.

#200

Post by wvenable »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #175
sseal wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

three things: 1. You do not enjoy your work, and thus have no motivation. 2. Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. 3. You have built a mental dependency that you must take amphetamines to "focus", and this hinders your real ability to focus. All of those things ^^^ I have experienced at one point or another in my life. You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not…

> Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. I've done that. A lot. It sucks. That's why I take medication. > You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not need medication... I don't understand why people can't quite believe that mental illness is real. You would never tell a diabetic or an asthmatic that they shouldn't have to take medicine every day. But if someone's…

It is hereditary too. I've seen how in past generations, children with these kind of conditions were just labeled as trouble makers and got no help and eventually failed out the system.

Just simple understanding and acceptance that this is a condition, medication or not, makes a huge difference. And yet here we are still arguing it.

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