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EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

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Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#231

Post by gpderetta »

WalterBright wrote: post #185
Ironchefpython wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The price hikes would immediately attract lower-cost competitors if this were truly a free market. Any participants in a free market for a product with inelastic demand (e.g. something you need to stay alive) and non-trivial entry costs immediately implements price fixing in the absence of regulation. When life-saving devices that require a significant supply chain to manufacture capture the bulk of consumer surplu…

Food is necessary for life, but food (in the US) is cheap, and food prices are not regulated.

There is also no government protected monopoly on food (although not for lack of trying).

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#233

Post by mrweasel »

Thlom wrote: post #226
kuon wrote: post #222

Is this only in the US? I'm in Switzerland, and I bought some for my kid, I paid around 80$ per piece. http://compendium.ch/mpro/mnr/22294/html/fr You have the price at the far bottom of the page, around 76CHF. I'm a bit concerned if the price is going to be x10.

I'm not familiar with the swiss health care system, but in Norway the government foots most of the bill for prescription drugs. The government is negotiating price with the manufacturer and as a big buyer they can get a fair price.

I have an EpiPen, just in case, because I keep bees. It is a prescription drug, but government co-pay doesn't kick in because the price is to low. I paid USD120, around DKK800, for one EpiPen.

My guess is that the US prices are higher, because insurance will pick up the bill for most people, allowing the manufacturer rise the prices with little consequence... for most people. Generally speaking Americans tend to pay a high cost for their lack of a national healthcare system, with very little benefit.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#234

Post by WalterBright »

makomk wrote: post #227
WalterBright wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have increased in price to capture the consumer surplus It is quite a remarkable coincidence that medical costs angled steeply upward immediately after heavy regulation and government involvement in it began. > I can maintain a monopoly It'll be pretty hard to swallow $1 million/year in losses to do so. You'd have to maintain those losses to beat back even a small competitor, who would have proportionally smaller l…

The US government has been heavily involved in regulating medicine since 1906. The only reason why "medical costs angled steeply upward immediately after heavy regulation and government involvement in it began" is because "heavy regulation" is a weasel-word; you could pick almost any point after 1900 or so and claim that's when it started in order to justify that argument. Take a look at the list of milestones here f…

The two seminal events in the 1960s are the FDA 1962 "effective" mandate, with subsequent sustained price spikes is well documented in Peltzman's "Regulation of Pharmaceutical Information".

The other one is the enactment of Medicare/Medicaid in 1966/1965. From the graphs I've seen, that corresponded with the knee in the curve.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#235

Post by Retric »

icebraining wrote: post #213
Retric wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company misbehaves, government nationalizes them. It's a perfectly valid approach often used in the US, which places the blame on the company not the government as it should be. Sure, we mostly stopped doing this for various stupid reasons, but legally it's sill an option.

When was this done, and how did it go?

It's surprisingly frequent, though generally short lived.

Legal and profitable mob run businesses are taken over vs shut down then resold once the books are clean. During World War II, Washington seized dozens of companies including railroads, coal mines and, briefly, the Montgomery Ward department store chain. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/business/worldbusiness/13i... Banks are probably the most common but it can also happen in bankruptcy.

Generally ownership is short lived though.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#236

Post by sevenless »

rdtsc wrote: post #67
sevenless wrote: post #30

How many people will this price hike kill? I'm sure that's estimable. What would be morally justified, to stop it?

Nah because it would upset the free market. I mentioned in another comment when someone from Europe or Canada asked something to the effect of "how come everything has to be free market in US even healthcare and such". And I think the answer is we treat free market as a religion. We don't evaluate what is better, healthier, more rational answer for a problem. Like say, "How do we keep people from dying from anaphylax…

It's interesting how Americans act horrified at the word collectivism, when a market is nothing if not a collectivist decision making process.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#237

Post by infinite8s »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
Cyph0n wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That second discussion got heated quite fast. I agree with the downvoters though. 3D printing a medical device is not something to take lightly. Edit: Here's why I agree. You download this design from the internet, and 3D print the parts. You then assemble it. Awesome! Some time later, you get an allergic reaction. You use the pen, but it fails to work correctly. Who's responsible? The designer? You (if you're alive)…

Scarcity demands innovation. I don't think its being taken lightly; more like, "a private company is gouging medical users and the government won't step in". Not left with many options when your life depends on it. EDIT: Alternatively, a "better" temporary solution would be to arrange for the import of these from Canada, where the price is fixed by the government.

Well the cheaper and more effective solution would be to carry around a syringe and a small bottle of epinephrine.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#238

Post by inthewoods »

kabdib wrote: post #78

If your kid is allergic and needs an EpiPen (or something like it), most school districts will not allow the child to attend class unless they have one at the school. Maybe two. And of course you have to carry them. There's another two. So that's $2400. Out of pocket if you don't have insurance, or if your insurance doesn't pay. The EpiPen manufacturers are abusing their monopoly.

Don't forget that they expire as well - I have two kids that require the pens and even with insurance it works out to quite a cost.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#239

Post by Adirael »

Johnny555 wrote: post #216
Mandatum wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the proper age, teaching kids to use syringe/vials or having a school nurse that can administer epinephrine would be a much cheaper alternative. EpiPens are purely about the delivery mechanism. Stabbing a syringe into your thigh and injecting a predetermined amount of epinephrine into your leg isn't majorly complicated. Maybe having a single pen on the kid and vials/syringes at the school would be a cheaper opt…

I don't think you've ever seen a child in Anaphylactic Shock if you think all you need to do is train the child to use a vial and needle. Even training school personnel is not a great idea - While an ER nurse or paramedic can handle it because they give injections every day, a teacher or even a school nurse may go for years without ever needing to do an epinephrine injection and the stress and inexperience may make t…

I wonder why glucagon isn't done in the same format as EpiPens are. I'm a T1 diabetic and I have one glucagon vial at work and one at home. In the case I go low (barely responsive low) someone has to go grab it from the fridge (it needs to be there) load the syringe and use it on me.

When people sleep over I teach them how to use it and I do something like a show and tell at job from time to time so new people know about it.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#240

Post by d4rti »

jdpedrie wrote: post #83
rdtsc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah because it would upset the free market. I mentioned in another comment when someone from Europe or Canada asked something to the effect of "how come everything has to be free market in US even healthcare and such". And I think the answer is we treat free market as a religion. We don't evaluate what is better, healthier, more rational answer for a problem. Like say, "How do we keep people from dying from anaphylax…

That's silly. How do you propose to "evaluate what is better, healthier, more rational"? I suppose some panel of experts could give you their best approximation, but it will always be sub-optimal. Markets exist in order to answer these questions, and they answer them by delegating the decision to every person involved in the decision, not by hoping a designated person can make a guess that's close enough. It appears…

NICE does a pretty good job in the UK.

https://www.nice.org.uk/

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