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Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

nautil.us

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Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#91

Post by pmoriarty »

yarou wrote: post #88
pmoriarty wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about who's better than whom. It's about incompatibility. Most people are interested in things I'm not interested in, and the things I am interested in aren't interesting to most people. They want to do or talk about what I don't, and I want to do or talk about things they don't. I've just come to realize my fundamental incompatibility with most of the people who I considered friends in the past. That doesn'…

I think your response is more a critique of the system of control we live under. You can never truly connect with people anymore, only through cheap channels (mainly walled gardens) that trivialize friendship to begin with. Friendship as a word had more meaning before the advent of social media. Now it's become depersonalized: followers, Facebook/Instagram friends, Snapchat followers, Tinder pseudo-relationships, etc…

Actually, I was thinking more of "real-life" relationships than online ones. Online it's even worse in some ways, as you point out, but better in others, as you can easily find a niche of people interested in whatever obscure thing you might be interested in at the moment -- though whether you can leverage that common interest to a meaningful relationship is quite another story.

As for moving, I've done that many times in my life. I've found that for me, unless I already know somebody in the place I'm moving to, and can meet people through them, I have a very difficult time making new friends. And there's virtually no one I know well anywhere any more.

I think what it ultimately boils down to is not being very social to begin with, combined with some social phobia, with mostly non-mainstream interests, and being content enough with my own company most of the time. That's lead to a lifetime of habits and choices that have resulted in the withering of my friendships the lack of enough motivation to make much effort to get new ones.

Most of the time I don't even think about it, and when I do, I just wonder why I should bother, as my attempts usually lead to nothing or just more pain and suffering.

It doesn't help that the people I'd probably have the most in common with probably aren't very social themselves and have problems making friends too.

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#92

Post by oh_sigh »

ShIxtan wrote: post #73
hiou wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Introvert is total bs. All those introverts are spending tons of time socializing online and then are burnt out once it comes to additional socializing outside of their phone.

Nope. I'm an introvert, I spend the vast majority of my time with my wife. I rarely talk to others at work, and I almost never comment or interact with anyone on social media. Talking to people in any medium is exhausting.

Why isn't spending time with your wife exhausting? Is it because you can "be yourself" around your wife?

If so, maybe you should try just being yourself around other people too.

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#93

Post by adrianratnapala »

pmoriarty wrote: post #31

As I've gotten older I've become more and more picky about who I want to spend time with. It used to be, when I was a lot younger, that I would be pretty indiscriminate: as long as someone wanted to spend time with me, and they were nice enough, and we could find something to do together that we enjoyed, like watching a movie, playing a game, or just hang out and talk about something (usually meaningless), that would…

Are you married?

I assume that young people are instinctively expanding their social networks in search of mates. Older people do that too -- but it is less vitally imporant.

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#94

Post by baddox »

oh_sigh wrote: post #92
ShIxtan wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I'm an introvert, I spend the vast majority of my time with my wife. I rarely talk to others at work, and I almost never comment or interact with anyone on social media. Talking to people in any medium is exhausting.

Why isn't spending time with your wife exhausting? Is it because you can "be yourself" around your wife? If so, maybe you should try just being yourself around other people too.

My guess would be that the exhaustion the commenter describes comes from the (perceived, and probably accurately so) need to follow certain social norms when in certain social situations. Such social norms wouldn't exist while spending time with one's wife.

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#95

Post by dredmorbius »

pmoriarty wrote: post #31

As I've gotten older I've become more and more picky about who I want to spend time with. It used to be, when I was a lot younger, that I would be pretty indiscriminate: as long as someone wanted to spend time with me, and they were nice enough, and we could find something to do together that we enjoyed, like watching a movie, playing a game, or just hang out and talk about something (usually meaningless), that would…

A long (85 minute) David Foster Wallace interview from 2003. He talks about the manic state of a media-saturated society in which solitude is perceived as almost a pathology (or perhaps not even "almost"). Rather Brave New World-ish , actually.

I think the relevant parts are toward the beginning. Full thing's worth listening to, several times. Or you could just read Infinite Jest.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxUY0kxH80

Particularly around 18 and 24 minutes, continuing for 6-10 minutes after. Ah yes, particularly at 30m.

The theme is interwoven throughought the interview though.

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#96

Post by justinlardinois »

yarou wrote: post #88
pmoriarty wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about who's better than whom. It's about incompatibility. Most people are interested in things I'm not interested in, and the things I am interested in aren't interesting to most people. They want to do or talk about what I don't, and I want to do or talk about things they don't. I've just come to realize my fundamental incompatibility with most of the people who I considered friends in the past. That doesn'…

I think your response is more a critique of the system of control we live under. You can never truly connect with people anymore, only through cheap channels (mainly walled gardens) that trivialize friendship to begin with. Friendship as a word had more meaning before the advent of social media. Now it's become depersonalized: followers, Facebook/Instagram friends, Snapchat followers, Tinder pseudo-relationships, etc…

This is just "kids today and their loud music" hang wringing.

Social media is no substitute for meaningful interaction, but does anyone actually think it is? It's a nice middle ground between having someone important and involved in your life and hardly communicating with them at all; just because I don't want/can't maintain the former with someone doesn't mean I want the latter.

Tinder's a weird one to group in there, since it's geared towards meeting new people, not keeping up with your friends.

Also

> You can never truly connect with people anymore

Why not? You can still go outside and talk to people.

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#97

Post by pmoriarty »

dredmorbius wrote: post #95
pmoriarty wrote: post #31

As I've gotten older I've become more and more picky about who I want to spend time with. It used to be, when I was a lot younger, that I would be pretty indiscriminate: as long as someone wanted to spend time with me, and they were nice enough, and we could find something to do together that we enjoyed, like watching a movie, playing a game, or just hang out and talk about something (usually meaningless), that would…

A long (85 minute) David Foster Wallace interview from 2003. He talks about the manic state of a media-saturated society in which solitude is perceived as almost a pathology (or perhaps not even "almost"). Rather Brave New World -ish , actually. I think the relevant parts are toward the beginning. Full thing's worth listening to, several times. Or you could just read Infinite Jest . https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxU…

There's also Michel de Montaigne's essays from the 1500's On Solitude.[1]

More recently, there are books like The Lonely Crowd from the 1960's, [2] and Anthony Storr's Solitude, from the 1980's[3]

Of course, for thousands of years, spending time in solitude has been greatly valued for religious reasons, for "building character", for coming in touch with oneself, or for creative purposes. On the other hand, modern life, and more recently the media (even before social media) have been criticized for alienating people from themselves and from each other.

[1] - http://www.hermitary.com/solitude/montaigne.html

[2] - https://www.amazon.com/Lonely-Crowd-Changing-Character-Paper...

[3] - https://www.amazon.com/Solitude-Return-Self-Anthony-Storr/dp...

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#98

Post by oh_sigh »

baddox wrote: post #94
oh_sigh wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't spending time with your wife exhausting? Is it because you can "be yourself" around your wife? If so, maybe you should try just being yourself around other people too.

My guess would be that the exhaustion the commenter describes comes from the (perceived, and probably accurately so) need to follow certain social norms when in certain social situations. Such social norms wouldn't exist while spending time with one's wife.

What kind of commonly activated social norms are we talking about where you can get away without them around your spouse but not other people?

Re: Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social

#100

Post by dredmorbius »

pmoriarty wrote: post #97
dredmorbius wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long (85 minute) David Foster Wallace interview from 2003. He talks about the manic state of a media-saturated society in which solitude is perceived as almost a pathology (or perhaps not even "almost"). Rather Brave New World -ish , actually. I think the relevant parts are toward the beginning. Full thing's worth listening to, several times. Or you could just read Infinite Jest . https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxU…

There's also Michel de Montaigne's essays from the 1500's On Solitude .[1] More recently, there are books like The Lonely Crowd from the 1960's, [2] and Anthony Storr's Solitude , from the 1980's[3] Of course, for thousands of years, spending time in solitude has been greatly valued for religious reasons, for "building character", for coming in touch with oneself, or for creative purposes. On the other hand, modern l…

Good refs.

I seem to recall a title "Solitude and the Self", though I can't find it via Worldcat. There's a similar one from the right timeframe: https://www.worldcat.org/title/solitude-a-return-to-the-self...

Arguably Chiksentmihilyi's work on Flow involves this too.

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