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EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

well.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#61

Post by sidlls »

dfsegoat wrote: post #26
ccleve wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are really two villains here, Mylan, of course, but more importantly, the FDA. FDA regulations make the cost of bringing a new medical device to the market absurd. There are no competitors because the time and effort to bring a competing device is so ridiculously high that it doesn't pay to do so. I have a child with a peanut allergy. I am worried every damn day of my life. I see articles about people who die e…

So, The FDA, because they require drug and device makers to demonstrate efficacy and safety by going through a rigorous clinical trial process, are evil? Really? I also find your comment pretty uninformed considering that the FDA just paved the way for generic drug makers to basically "knock-off" super expensive biologic drugs like Humira and Enbrel which were previously covered by similar patents. The FDA has it's p…

The workers ("staffed") in the FDA are (mostly, probably) people who want to help but the bureaucrats in charge are part of the political system (e.g. lobbyists, political insiders, etc.). I think you're conflating the workers of the FDA with the people who, ultimately, guide it and make decisions.

This isn't to say the leadership of the FDA is compromised by or somehow beholden to "Big Pharma" or some such. I certainly wouldn't disagree that we need rigorous demonstrations of efficacy and safety for medicines and devices, but I question in what manner and capacity the FDA is actually structured to pursue that end.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#62

Post by ViViDboarder »

leereeves wrote: post #51
Animats wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. Windgap[1] took venture capital, took state funding from Massachusetts back in 2012, and didn't ship the product. Cool web site, though. Sanofi tried, but their product misfired at least 26 times and was recalled.[2] Teva tried, and their product was rejected by the FDA because of problems; they're going to try again with a new model in 2017.[3] [1] http://www.windgapmedical.com/ [2] https://www.auvi-q.com/…

Three companies tried and failed? It sounds like it's harder than we might think to make this work. Given that, and the low volumes, it might not be that profitable even at $600 per sale.

But that R&D was spent years ago.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#63

Post by leereeves »

ucaetano wrote: post #52
gkanai wrote: post #40

This is a simple example of how health care systems should be nationalized. Or that the profit motive in health care is corrosive to health.

No it doesn't. Switzerland has one of the best healthcare systems in the world, which is completely private (although there are some public hospitals), but heavily regulated.

Heavily regulated to avoid the corrosive effect of the profit motive?

You two might actually agree.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#64

Post by slowmovintarget »

shanacarp wrote: post #39

This is one of those devices that also should be low cost because businesses, locations, ect should have them as well as individuals (many people can have first time deadly allergic reactions, including as adults) That the price for the case is expensive just rose as random is serious business. There really is no need for it to be so expensive

I have no evidence, but this headline coupled with the insulin price hike... it really feels like this is an attempt to manufacture a crisis.

I fill a prescription for epi-pens once a year (nut allergies), but insurance bears the brunt of the cost.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#65

Post by leereeves »

ViViDboarder wrote: post #62
leereeves wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three companies tried and failed? It sounds like it's harder than we might think to make this work. Given that, and the low volumes, it might not be that profitable even at $600 per sale.

But that R&D was spent years ago.

I meant for a new entrant.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#66

Post by mattkrause »

Animats wrote: post #13
helloworld wrote: post #2

Why haven't competitors entered the market with cheaper products?

They did. Windgap[1] took venture capital, took state funding from Massachusetts back in 2012, and didn't ship the product. Cool web site, though. Sanofi tried, but their product misfired at least 26 times and was recalled.[2] Teva tried, and their product was rejected by the FDA because of problems; they're going to try again with a new model in 2017.[3] [1] http://www.windgapmedical.com/ [2] https://www.auvi-q.com/…

Weird! It doesn't seem like a particularly complicated device. Is anything publicly known about what was going wrong?

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#67

Post by rdtsc »

sevenless wrote: post #30

How many people will this price hike kill? I'm sure that's estimable. What would be morally justified, to stop it?

Nah because it would upset the free market.

I mentioned in another comment when someone from Europe or Canada asked something to the effect of "how come everything has to be free market in US even healthcare and such".

And I think the answer is we treat free market as a religion. We don't evaluate what is better, healthier, more rational answer for a problem. Like say, "How do we keep people from dying from anaphylaxis?" We don't answer that. We always answer first, what would free market want? Will it want us to do this? If not, we don't proceed.

We treat it as if it is deity of sorts and if we disobey we'll be punished.

Someone replied and said this idea isn't so outrageous because a similar concept has been defined already in politics:

American Civil Religion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion)

I am just proposing there is a similar religion in respect to free market.

It is often sold in propaganda terms of course -- we are not communists here, we just want efficiency, we want progress, don't worry stuff will trickle down eventually and so on. So we make it palatable but the main incentive is worshiping the deity.

It sounds crazy but evaluating a lot of things we do as a society through that perspective can be interesting.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#68

Post by gradstudent »

xnor wrote: post #42

If people don't want to buy two epipen there's always that neat trick for multiple doses in precarious locations far from hospitals. It is a well known hack taught in wilderness medicine training. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luultUD0eK0

If you have something concrete to say then say it. You're only lowering the quality of the conversation by making vague assertions in the style of "one weird trick" followed by mystery links to random places on the web.

Re: EpiPen Price Rise Sparks Concern for Allergy Sufferers

#70

Post by tw04 »

shanacarp wrote: post #43
toomuchtodo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The patent is expired: https://www.google.com/patents/US4031893 Courtesy ceejayoz below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12340464

so why aren't there more case manufactures

For the same reason there were no competitors to daraprim before Martin Shkreli decided to be a complete ja. When the price is low enough that there's little profit to be had, nobody bothers competing because it's not worth the time, money, and effort to get FDA approval. When the price gets jacked up like that, you will find generics pop up quickly. The problem is the window between the price hike and when generics pop up can sometimes be years due to needing to get FDA approval.

In this case there was a competitor, but they recently had their product pulled from the market in an FDA recall. So Mylan decided: why not raise the price 600% (and rising) when it's a drug people HAVE to have.

Capitalism in action baby. Let's deregulate EVERYTHING!

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