Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 251 posts

Re: Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

#61

Post by softawre »

chime wrote: post #42

I feel less paranoid now for my browsing process. Almost everything I search is in an incognito window, from shopping and research to programming and how-tos. And when I'm done with looking for a new dog leash or Python module, I close that window. Only things in my main browser are the regular sites I visit and am logged into (email, HN, reddit etc.) I started this after learning about the filter bubble but I've not…

> It seems like a hassle but it's no different from cleaning your feet before stepping inside the house after playing in the park.

I mean, you can make that exact argument about every annoying thing you have to do that wastes 1-5 minutes of your time. But over time, especially as a software programmer, if you don't automate those away, it really hurts your productivity.

Re: Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

#62

Post by ellisv »

techsupporter wrote: post #30
Bartweiss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for Gmail users, the + notation will handle this well. foobar@gmail.com and foobar+SearsSoldMyEmail@gmail.com will both direct to the same location, and relatively few resellers have the sense to strip the extra data.

The problem with the + notation is twofold: First, not all places accept the + character; second, you've now revealed your actual e-mail address (since foobar@gmail.com is just as valid as foobar+dontspamme@gmail.com). I use a subdomain with catch-all, like me.example.com. Everybody is fine with subdomains and then I can use companyname@me.example.com. Using that format doesn't expose my actual e-mail address and mak…

> First, not all places accept the + character

Additionally you cannot send an email from foobar+dontspamme@gmail.com. If you aggressively use the + character for legitimate signups but need customer support they may not be able to find your account as easily (e.g. "we couldn't find an account associated with e-mail foobar@gmail.com").

Re: Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

#64

Post by softawre »

Bartweiss wrote: post #40
techsupporter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the + notation is twofold: First, not all places accept the + character; second, you've now revealed your actual e-mail address (since foobar@gmail.com is just as valid as foobar+dontspamme@gmail.com). I use a subdomain with catch-all, like me.example.com. Everybody is fine with subdomains and then I can use companyname@me.example.com. Using that format doesn't expose my actual e-mail address and mak…

This is a good point. For me, the actual email problem isn't huge - my first line of defense is giving out a burner email unless I want the primary site to be able to contact me. So I don't expect to get truly hammered with spam, and just want a way to know what happened if someone does sell the address. The invalidation issue is a bigger one, and a subdomain is certainly a better solution for it. Disposable emails a…

Not to mention that many spamming setups have known about the + trick for a long time and will trim it out.

Re: Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

#66

Post by akg_67 »

davb wrote: post #58

I once had something similar, if not worse, happen. I was researching some network equipment, looking at lots of websites and comparing products. Then my desk phone rings. A call being passed from the switchboard - someone asking for the person responsible for IT purchasing. It was a sales rep from a network equipment distributor, saying they noticed I was browsing their website and wanted to help me through the purc…

In early 2000's, as B2B Product Manager, I implemented a similar customer outreach program. We will reverse lookup the name associated with visitor IP address and then look into our own sales contact database for contacts in that company. Depending on contact quality, we will reach out to them using phone, email or personal visit from a sales rep in the area.

A few times, we decided to hold 'lunch-and-learn' type in-person events in a region based on the regional concentration of IP addresses from prospect companies and search queries from those regions to tailor our presentations.

Re: Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

#67

Post by Karunamon »

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #47
sp332 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really pushing the boundaries of the CAN-SPAM act. You're not allowed to send unsolicited emails. You shouldn't be allowed to pretend that visiting a site is a solicitation. Edit: I misunderstood the mechanism of collecting the addresses. This isn't skirting "unsolicited mail", but it is circumventing the ban on harvested email addresses.

California and New Jersey have laws that go above and beyond the protections outlined in CAN-SPAM. I used to work for a company that sent spam (I swear, I didn't know until after I'd already accepted the job), and we avoided sending to those states. If more states would adopt laws like this, we could dramatically curtail spam. As for what constitutes solicitation, I wish it was that simple. In some instances, compani…

the best way to avoid being fingerprinted by advertisers is to block JavaScript by default.

Leaving aside the sheer amount of stuff this will break, you're serving to identify yourself in another way, but perhaps not to an advertiser.

Given the average website, the number of people using a real web browser (i.e. not bots, curl, wget, etc) who don't run JS is going to be absolutely miniscule.

It's kind of like turning on Do Not Track - most people have it off, so you're highlighting yourself by turning it on.

Re: Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

#68

Post by rootlocus »

I was thinking whether or not sending these emails actually helps companies like Sears by bringing in customers, and whether or not (to an extreme) they might depend on them to survive as a profitable enterprise. What came to me as a revelation is that it's irrelevant. If their income relies on bothering everyone who comes across their website, tricking them into clickbaits or spamming them with (possibly malicious) ads, it might mean their services are not enough to justify their existence. As such, I decide not to pity them, and happily continue loving my adblocker.

Re: Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam

#70

Post by JohnTHaller »

I've been getting more spam lately from "legitimate" companies. One of my email addresses leaked from a major open source project I corresponded with. Harvesters found it and now sell it to every small business and entrepreneur marketer you can think of. I get spam from CDNs, off-shoring companies, SEO/SEM, marketing, you name it.

Lots of them use sketchy services like reply.io to make it seem like a real person sent the email. And then another that looks like a reply to the first when you don't respond. And then another and another. Like Katie Malone at HawkSEM.com who 'personally' spammed me another 'reply' today. Essentially, folks like reply.io and similar automate the process of repeat spamming. Even their tag line is "Send Cold Emails That Feel Warm".

Here's a reality check for you: sending "cold emails" to a list of email addresses you bought makes you a spammer. Even if you try to make them appear personal. The giveaway is the tracking image (usually hidden or 1px by 1px white of course) and tracking links in every email so they can track whether you opened it and whether you clicked anything along with the unsubscribe link at the bottom. Except they don't label it as unsubscribe. It says "If you don't want to get any more emails from me, just let me know." with 'just let me know' as a link.

Be sure to mark every email like this you receive as spam so you don't get any more and so their reputation decreases enough to route all of this spam to everyone's spam folders.

Post reply on HN