Live data from Hacker News

Fighting Cancer

hintjens.com

91–100 of 162 posts

Re: Fighting Cancer

#91

Just an interesting related tangent here: My father in law is dying of heart disease (will probably die in People see me upset and the first thing they say is he will get better, or, it will be ok. When I explain the situation, it's something like, "oh, well, I just KNOW he will get better. Don't worry" What? In case you are wondering: He has already had open heart 2 years ago, 4 of 5 arteries are completely blocked…

There is also this commonly held notion that if you "live right", with healthy habits, food, and exercise, you will live to 98 in perfect health, and probably die of an instant heart attack while in bed with a young lover. It's of course true that obesity and lack of exercise increase health risks at all ages, but that risk was never going to be 0. The notion that I mentioned basically makes health problems into a mo…

> There is also this commonly held notion that if you "live right"

One of humanity's greatest questions is "Why do bad things happen to good people?"

The inconvenient truth, of course, is that the universe is cold and uncaring, and random chance and statistics means that bad things will happen.

But we humans hate that answer. We crave structure, patterns, cause and effect, order. Why did flooding destroy a city? You must have angered the gods with your sinful ways! There we go. Cause and effect. Peace of mind. Rules have been created. The universe makes sense again.

Why do young people get cancer? They ate the wrong food! They didn't exercise enough! They didn't fight the cancer! They did this, they didn't that. Cause and effect. They broke the rules. And as long as I don't break the rules, bad things will not happen to me. I will never anger the gods, eat the wrong food, or forget to exercise, and those who do, they're immoral and deserve the bad things that happen to them!

And that is why this is a morality play.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a fact that the effect exists, but I think that you are also victim to the popular idea that this effect is extremely powerful or even overwhelming, making "taking care of yourself" a powerful morality tale. Here is a quote from a large study: "having a BMI between 30 and 35 shortened life by an average of 0–1 years, having a BMI between 35 and 40 shortened life by 1–3 years, and having a BMI above 40 shortened…

What about going the other way? how does having a BMI of 25 to 30, 20 to 25, 15 to 20 work?

The same study says that low BMI is also associated with lower lifespan, and the statistically optimum BMI for white people is 23 to 25 (there are racial differences in all the numbers, which I think also challenges the idea of assigning moral qualities to them).

However, I don't know if I would give too much thought to the effect for low BMI - it could just be that people with extremely low BMI tend to have some disease process which causes that; only a small minority of them are rail-thin athletes. For high and extremely high BMI, there are known causal mechanisms for disease, so it's a different story.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#93

> The only way to beat cancer, really, is to die from something else first. That was a short and pointed article. More so after I read a short comic strip on PHD Comics about cancer [1], I can't help but think that "beating cancer" is a very tough (and impossible) goal for the ones suffering from it and the ones looking for better management or reduction of it. That shining light of optimism after remission is tinged…

> [1]: http://phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1162

So, forgive me if I'm being naive because I don't really have professional experience in the field of cancer research, but this comic makes it sound like a cure for cancer is impossible because it would have to deal with million different forms and shapes that it can take, but, theoretically, wouldn't it be possible to attack the root problem instead, and find a way to biologically enhance our dna replication "algorithm" to prevent mutations in the first place? Surely it's better to prevent the mutations in the first place than find a cure for them, since then it's a single problem.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#94
post #84

" There are people who treat the dying as easy prey. " For some reason this hurt most. Maybe I expected way too much humanity off humans.

It's a sad reality, but when it comes to people I've come to accept that by default you should expect malice and selfishness unless otherwise is proven (not that I condone being an ass to other people, but just don't trust intentions by default).

Re: Fighting Cancer

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a fact that lifestyle affects likelihood and progression of heart disease. Rare cases that end life early for genetic reasons do not change this. It is unfortunate that some people assume all early heart problems are avoidable, but only because sharing an opinion is unnecessary, not because the assumption is likely wrong. The morality of not taking care of oneself is subjective, of course. Edit: I should say I…

It is a fact that the effect exists, but I think that you are also victim to the popular idea that this effect is extremely powerful or even overwhelming, making "taking care of yourself" a powerful morality tale. Here is a quote from a large study: "having a BMI between 30 and 35 shortened life by an average of 0–1 years, having a BMI between 35 and 40 shortened life by 1–3 years, and having a BMI above 40 shortened…

Sure, I understand what you are saying. Those are actually significant findings, though. Keep in mind how good we are at keeping people with progressed heart disease alive. The relatively few years' reduction in lifespan masks, in my cases, early onset of heart disease and years of expensive emergency response, frequent hospitalization, transplants, reduced quality of life, and so on. Better is to look at large meta studies about bmi, smoking, diet, and physical activity as they affect rates of disease as well as mortality. I quickly searched and found many results.

Respectfully, I haven't said anything about living until a very old age. I am only talking about a few diseases and I understand there are a lot of ways to die. I have also said the morality of not trying to extend lifespan is subjective.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#96

Just an interesting related tangent here: My father in law is dying of heart disease (will probably die in People see me upset and the first thing they say is he will get better, or, it will be ok. When I explain the situation, it's something like, "oh, well, I just KNOW he will get better. Don't worry" What? In case you are wondering: He has already had open heart 2 years ago, 4 of 5 arteries are completely blocked…

i also hate saying and hearing platitudes, but recognize that it's only because people don't know what else to say. by telling them about this unfortunate situation, you're kind of putting them into that position. these days i only tell my problems to people who have the ability to do something about it, or my closest friends who will commiserate without offering useless responses.

As an immigrant who come to America in my 20's, I never fully understand this. I saw people who asked a person who just experienced extreme difficult situations, "are you ok?". Apparently she was not ok. Her husband just passed away and they had two young children. Nobody would be ok unless she is completely heartless. Other sayings, like "it will be fine", "everything will be ok", etc.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#97
post #29

A beautiful read, for many of the reasons already mentioned here. I'm inclined to rethink this one question, though: > Can a single individual patient second-guess the medical machine? Is that really their duty? I don't know if it's anyone's duty , but I think it's completely plausible for a single patient or small group of patients to arrive at a more patient-focused conclusion than the medical industry.

I think it is super important to answer yes to that question as a patient.

At the end of the day, it it your body. You are responsible for it. You may not be an expert in what all of it does in its majestic form and function, but that is why doctors, nurses, and researchers exist.

You live in it. When you are explaining stuff, be it pain or pleasure, to a doctor, that experience is mediated by the sheer fact that your doctor is not you and does not live in your body, does not receive sensory input from your body. Your doctor receives sensory input from his/her body.

Even if your doctor has extremely similar experiences, there is no guarantee that they will fully understand you and your predicaments. Most doctors in the US know what a severe sunburn looks like, and many will have had them growing up. Most also have not seen Phytophotodermatitis (aka lime disease http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/burned-by... ), nor will have had them growing up. With the growth of artsinal cocktails and people realizing fresh citrus juice tastes better, it's occurring more frequently. Now there is an educational push,but that doesn't equal expedient treatment and lots of doctors recognizing on sight yet before it gets bad.

While Phytophotodermatitis is a trivial example, for patients with serious diseases (and not serious but not common ones too) the example holds and can be expanded. Patients banding together to change this is generally what causes major changes in healthcare policy in the US president,as well as direction in research. (The most famous example is in the late 90s/early 00 with aids via act up nyc. The documentary "how to survive a plague" covers this extremely well")

So yes, you totally should question. You totally have more power than you think. Act on it.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#98

I am not sure why cryonics are not in the menu of every reader here when he has the opportunity (you don't have it if you die in a sudden accident) to subscribe when it seems inevitable to die.

Not all of us want to live again in some unknown future without any sense of continuity or surviving relationships. Death is ultimately inevitable, even if a miracle like cryonics could postpone it the first time. The author's entire point is that we should accept this inevitability, not try to avoid it by any psychological means we can conjure. Only then can we respond appropriately.

>Death is ultimately inevitable

What makes you say this? There is no fundamental aspect of physics that makes death inevitable except perhaps on the very very very long term (heat-death timescales).

Understanding and controlling every aspect of human biology is an engineering challenge. It's obviously extremely difficult, but we have no reason to suspect it's intractable.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i also hate saying and hearing platitudes, but recognize that it's only because people don't know what else to say. by telling them about this unfortunate situation, you're kind of putting them into that position. these days i only tell my problems to people who have the ability to do something about it, or my closest friends who will commiserate without offering useless responses.

As an immigrant who come to America in my 20's, I never fully understand this. I saw people who asked a person who just experienced extreme difficult situations, "are you ok?". Apparently she was not ok. Her husband just passed away and they had two young children. Nobody would be ok unless she is completely heartless. Other sayings, like "it will be fine", "everything will be ok", etc.

> I saw people who asked a person who just experienced extreme difficult situations, "are you ok?". Apparently she was not ok. Her husband just passed away and they had two young children.

In American culture, this use of "Are you okay?" is not at all literal. It is a polite and well-understood way of opening a dialogue in which the other party can detail the problems stemming from the situation under discussion (implicit from the context of the question) with which they require either emotional support or more concrete assistance, without actually asking for assistance, and without the initiator overtly suggesting that the other party needs assistance in the first place. Its a means of offering support within the context of America's culture of maintaining the illusion of self-reliance. (OTOH, because of that culture of self-reliance, even this elliptical opening is expected to be declined in most cases with, in most cases, an "I'm okay" or, when that is so manifestly not the case as to be ludicrous, "I will be okay".)

The more direct forms which do overtly reference a perceived need for assistance ("Is there anything I can do to help?" or, even moreso, "What can I do to help?") are generally considered less polite and less acceptable, particularly in public and/or from more distant acquaintances.

Re: Fighting Cancer

#100
post #32
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(a bit tangential, not directly related to the special case of pancreatic cancer, maybe in this case early detection provides better results) Early detection is double-edged sword: It is very hard to tell in early stages if the cancer develops into harmful variants and a small false positive error can have drastic consequences, if applied on scale [1]. The result is that many undergo unnecessary therapy with 100% har…

It sounds like we need better non-invasive early detection. Tests where you can monitor the progress. Simply saying "we've got some early tests that aren't very helpful" doesn't mean we shouldn't be improving the tests. Also, i'm not sure why we can't have both: better early detection and better treatments.

Pathways genomics is actually in clinical trials for blood tests to detect very very early masses that won't show up on scans.

One of the vps from Google's moonshot division,Jeff Huber, just left to head up a company that is a spinout of illumina, called Grail

No affiliation, but they have a bunch of interesting software jobs open after looking at thier site

http://newton.newtonsoftware.com/career/CareerHome.action?cl...

Post reply on HN