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Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

curiousgnu.com

111–120 of 278 posts

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#111

It's just slot machines with a more respectable coat of paint.

Is there absolutely no skill or expertise involved in it? I don't know because I haven't spent too much time studying it, but it seems a lot more like poker than slot machines. People who are better at the game should have an edge on others.

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Amazon's strategy for the next couple of years involves X, Y, and Z, so I think they will be successful/fail." That's not really the right question. If Amazon's strategy is hugely successful, but everyone else already thought Amazon's strategy was going to be even more hugely successful and had priced that in, then you could be 100% correct about your question and lose money.

Agreed. You need to ask "Is Amazon's strategy for the next years going to work better than everyone thinks it is going to work?"

What other people think is only relevant insomuch as it determines the price. You need to ask "Is Amazon's strategy for the next years going to work well enough that I should buy at the price the stock is currently offered at?".

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#113

If someone is consistently good at losing money 60% of the time. Why not just do the exact opposite of whatever their initial hunch is. Then they should make money. Based on loss of 36% from the article that is more than just transaction and trade fees which are 1 to 2%of trade therefore if they just do the opposite of what they are doing they should make money.

> Why not just do the exact opposite of whatever their initial hunch is.

If your initial hunch is to buy a stock you don't own yet, you can't sell it instead.

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#114

This blog post did not answer it's own question because it's conditions were not day trading (over 3 trades in 12 months). That condition selects for people choosing individual stocks hoping for a moonshot, for which people tend to choose riskier stocks rather than stocks actually likely to make them money. So no wonder 80% lost money. On the other hand, notice that the 20% who do make money have a large power distri…

If your minimum bet is $1000, commissions are less than 1%. As long as you don't over leverage, the expected return should be positive relative to s&p if you sell options. But you got to hold them to collect some premium.

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#115

If someone is consistently good at losing money 60% of the time. Why not just do the exact opposite of whatever their initial hunch is. Then they should make money. Based on loss of 36% from the article that is more than just transaction and trade fees which are 1 to 2%of trade therefore if they just do the opposite of what they are doing they should make money.

> Why not just do the exact opposite of whatever their initial hunch is. If your initial hunch is to buy a stock you don't own yet, you can't sell it instead.

You buy stocks for two reasons. Either you think they will go up (long) or you think they will go down (called "shorting"). You can think of them as opposites.

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#116
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing that trading strategy is a continuous job; that's what successful traders do. They don't play stocks, they play strategies. There are going to be computers involved no matter what. Your indicators, your trading platform, what analysts you trust. So what is a bot ? A "bot" suggests to me something just trading in and out of some security at some average frequency: weeks, days, intraday, minutes, seconds and…

An online friend just got into currency trading and went into some tutorials about reading curves. Apparently there are recurring curve patterns, which allows one to predict where a rate is going. If you can code up some pattern recognition algorithm, there might be a way to make money. Although I'm very skeptical about those patterns, because there could be someone trading back and forth to create those trends, and…

I am a technical analyst. Patterns do occur but ultimately prices are driven by fundamental events. Interest rate decisions, market data releases and similar. When that occurs no pattern can survive on the smaller timeframe. Technical analysis works but it is not written in stone.

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#117
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was just doing a play on words with the ambiguity and you went full math on him. >only 80% of them lose money over one year, but as time continues over multiple years, the percent [that loses some] money approaches 100%.

I'm probably going to continue going "full math" in the foreseeable future.

Oh I quite enjoyed it

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#118

The Financial Times often refers to spread betting companies as 'debt collection agencies with a side interest in trading'. Emptying the accounts of users and then collecting the additional money owed is what these companies do. Then they use some of the profits to advertise for new customers to continue the cycle...

I'm an avid FT reader and like that description, but have never seen it before. Any chance you can provide a reference?

Suggest Alphaville's coverage of Plus500: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/tag/plus500/

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#119
post #76
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Barclays were one of the few banks who managed to raise extra capital without government help?

Yes they then raised from Qatar but the unfolding was dramatic http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7658277.stm and Robert Peston was having the days of his professional life eheh. Got it the link! http://monevator.com/how-fear-is-driving-bank-share-prices/

I've owned BARC for 10yrs now, and I've taken a hell of a beating. I'll never buy any kind of banking equity again.

Re: Almost 80% of Private Day Traders Lose Money

#120
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get to 5, make sure you are judgement proof, and any loaned money is unsecured credit card money. I honestly couldn't care less about credit card money losses, but I've seen too many people with assets(home, profitable website, really good job, nice cars) get reamed in bankruptcy court. Or, they lie about assets. Lie about assets, but make sure they never show up anywhere. And just because you lied about your…

Do you have any literature you can recommend for when one gets into financial troubles. I don't think I would ever feel comfortable using leverage, but would like to know what I'm up against if I get to medical bankruptcy, for example.

Medical bankruptcies are the number one reason people file for protection. Don't beat yourself up. I once got a hospital blood test, and they charged me $1100 dollars. When they found out I had insurance through my Union; that total bill went down to $90.00. That's the total price they charged my insurance company. My portion was $7.00. So the medical system is rigged. I find the system very unfair, and it doesn't make any sense economic sense.

O.k., I am obviously not a lawyer, but have dealt with these individuals. If you think you get a funny feeling about your lawyer; walk--they are a dime a dozen. If you have nerves of steel, and are good at research it's not unheard of to do your own bankruptcy. Yes, I know the adage, just there's some people that can do some sophisticated legal work themselfs.

Most lawyers offer a free first visit. See a few of them. Take notes. The slimey ones try to scare you. The moral ones are strait shooters. Double check verything they state. Try to get a money back guarantee.

Back to you medical bankruptcy; hospitals, and doctors say they use the judicial system to get their overpriced fees only sometimes. They do go after thousands of people yearly though. They are basically lie. They get judgements, and force previous patients out of their home. Completely disgusting in my world. If I was a rich dude looking to donate money to a hospital, I would have one question, "Have you ever sued a patient for nonpayment? How many? What were the facts of the case?

If you are forced into bankruptcy, and have a house there's a homestead exemption in most states. I believe it's $125,000. It's not much. I know in Texas it's basically unlimited--which it should be nationwide! No one should be able to touch your home, especially in a medical bankruptcy.

Now if you have a house, and a bank account. String the creditors on for as long as possible. In the mean time, talk to a lawyer about getting rid of assets. You don't want hide assets, by illegial transfers, but it's complicated. Their are ways to hide that house, but it's tricky, but doable. Don't be the idiot that goes deep in collections, and transfers the home into a family members name, and then a week later file for a chapter 7. Again, talk to a lawyer if you have assets.

The whole process scared me. Be strong! Everything will work out, especially in a medical bankruptcy. I was so scared over my financial difficulties at one point, I considered committing suicide. Talking to the right lawyer, a guy who basically told the truth--really settled me down. I knew he was my guy when he said, "All my clients lie about they annual income."

(Don't take advice too seriously form Internet chat rooms, or even myself. There is still so much wrong information, even by porported lawyers. I didn't help you much, but you seem to have a straight forward bankruptcy. Don't let this ruin you life. I spent so many unneeded nights worrying. I won't even say good luck, I don't think you have a sticky bankruptcy. As to lituraure, Nolo Press is pretty good, but they too make mistakes. Learn how to do legal research. Become familiar with bankruptcy codes/procedures for your state.)

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