Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco • Hacker News Board

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#221

Post by throwaway6734 » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 1:37 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #173

ubernostrum wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want some fun? Try being someone who commutes in the Bay area via a combination of walking and public transit. Cars give me very little trouble. Bicycles, though.. at least a couple times a week I nearly get killed by one. At crosswalks, typically I'm in a crowd of people and drivers know better than to try to make a turn through the crowd. Cyclists, though, will blow through, even just flat running a red light, and…

Baltimore is surprisingly much the same, with the delightful twist of cyclists who cheerfully (and ubiquitously) ride on the sidewalks, and who then try to act like you're the asshole when you explain politely to them that they need to get off the God damn sidewalk and into the God damn road. Don't even get me started on cyclists who use the light rail. They're worse than football fans, which is saying a lot; footbal…

Fellow Baltimorean here! My main mode of transportation is cycling. I try my best to use bike lanes and stay in the street and off the side-walk. That being said, sometimes it's scary/unsafe to ride in the street due to having a combination of high-speeds/single lanes/parked cars. Even streets with bicycle lanes (St. Paul St. is a good example) can be uncomfortable due to the above problems.

I'm excited for the cycle track on Maryland Ave. to be completed and I'm hoping that solves some problems.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#222

Post by Symbiote » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 1:41 PM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #109

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Pedestrians, especially New Yorkers, are j-walkers. I spent the last 12 days in various places in Japan and boy, there are none of those except in places without crosswalks. It was weird!! But yes, best thing to do is be predictable if you're doing something (even if it is wrong). People sometimes think New Yorkers are crazy drivers. To the inexperienced it probably looks that way. However after driving here mos…

It's the same in Vietnam. Coming from the west, the driving there looks verifiably insane. After a few weeks you learn their rules (or how to compensate for lack thereof) and it doesn't feel as unsafe anymore.

However, Vietnam's roads are unsafe.

I saw five road accidents within a three-week holiday, including one fatality.

The statistics are a quick search away, but I suspect accidents are underreported in Vietnam. I saw a motorcyclist hit by a luxury car on a mountain road, just outside a café. Most bystanders seemed more concerned about possible damage to the car, than to the dazed rider. The car driver didn't even get out of the car.

A bus ahead of mine slammed the brakes on, and I saw people were running into the street. It took a while for us to pass the commotion, but when we got there I saw a body covered with a sheet of cardboard and a flattened bicycle. The bus driver stopped the bus a few minutes later, and wandered around it waving incense, which he left in a special holder on the number plate. Neither he nor his ticket collector wore their seatbelts when we resumed driving.

A man in Hanoi was wandering into the road in a daze, with blood coming from his head. A motorbike was on the road on its side, and a helmet nearby. I think he simply fell off, but I'd guess the helmet wasn't being worn properly.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#223

Post by pyb » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 1:43 PM UTC

NoGravitas wrote: post #209

pyb wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but it's really lycra clad commuters I've had bad experiences with... some of them are just oblivious I don't find black cabs threatening. It's the Ubers who are usually really dangerous. Not sure if it's because they're new to their jobs (a high turnover occupation?), or half asleep.

If they're in lycra, they're very unlikely to be a commuter. They'll be a sports cyclist, not a utility cyclist. Utility cyclists wear normal clothes.

In London, it's quite common to see cycle commuters with sports clothing. They take a shower and change clothes at the office

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#224

Post by Symbiote » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

adrianratnapala wrote: post #87

brokenmachine wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the law, draconian or not. I personally don't want to come within 1m of a 1500kg vehicle, probably driven by someone playing with their phone, going faster than I am. It is possible on Sydney roads if drivers wait until there's an overtaking lane, which is actually the only legal solution. Anyway, it's never enforced so what difference does it make? Drivers will continue to only care about themselves and cycli…

> Countries with governments that aren't crap have separate tracks for cyclists, It's not about crap governments. It's about practical responses to the world as it is. Now I live in Munich and enjoy riding on dedicated bike lanes. But these are built on seriously wide roads. In Sydney that space is used for other things. Such land-use decisions were locked in during the early 20th century. Now it's perfectly reasonab…

> Now I live in Munich and enjoy riding on dedicated bike lanes

You do realise the lanes in Munich almost certainly weren't built by the Nazis? And the layout of roads, especially major ones, will have been altered since then, and can be altered in the future?

I'm not familiar with Munich, but the Netherlands got their bicycle lanes after lots of public campaigning in the 1970s [1].

In many European cities, the streets have been significantly remodelled within the 20th century. Just last month, a large road I use in Copenhagen was altered to increase the size of the bicycle lanes [3], reducing the width of the car lanes. Late last year, a road near the hospital was altered to block off parking close to a junction, which made visibility much better for everyone.

London is currently building a major east-west route [4].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_the_Netherlands#Ove...

[2] http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-geography-travel-germany-mu...

[3] http://www.kk.dk/nyheder/bredere-cykelstier-i-gothersgade

[4] https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-proje...

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#225

Post by Twisell » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

pif wrote: post #202

Twisell wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jerks happen to use various ways of moving around. Some happen to use a bike, please don't use generalization. While momentum argument is real, my personal philosophy as a daily commuting biker in France is "I'm the more exposed to risk and the more hated road user, so don't get in the way of cars and don't ever dare touch pedestrians" That being said, yes I do pass red light when I have good clearance and I don't "e…

> I don't "emergency brake by courtesy" It's not by courtesy, it's by driving code. And the fact that you don't judge your behaviour dangerous doesn't imply that it's not perceived as dangerous by people around you: as such, you are just egoistically imposing an annoyance to people contrary to their right. In other words, you're misbehaving.

Well I don't know how it work in the USA. But here in France half of the time, if you strictly apply the driving code as a biker and "emergency brake by courtesy", the pedestrian will bluntly look at you with a suspecting look for 5 seconds before eventually crossing.

Other half of the times they will say "you go sir" then you debate on who get to go first. At worst you "win" this unwanted honor you then have to slowly start again your momentum under the condescending eyes of the pedestrian that will say later "bike run like jerks!" to his friend.

While on bike, if the pedestrian is not engaged it is really smoother and smarter if you go first and the pedestrian go after. If he's engaged most of the time you can ride behind him, if not then you brake and don't even dare touch him.

Usually the only case you really have to emergency brake at a crossroad is when clearly the pedestrian is about to cross anyway and/or pay really no attention to his surrounding.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#226

Post by phicoh » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

gaff33 wrote: post #132

oarsinsync wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have time now to write a comment laying out a comprehensive rebuttal of all the foolishness that some people have suggested here ... bicyclists should have to follow exactly the same rules as drivers In the UK, all vehicles on the road are required to abide by the highway code. Yep, that means bicycles have to follow the same rules as drivers. In the 1990s, schools in the UK ran cycling courses to ensure th…

This is what happens when bikes follow rules designed for cars: http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-wh... It's patently stupid to have the same rules for bikes as it is for cars since they are completely different vehicles. Now perhaps this is a case of semantics: The Highway Code has rules for all users of highways, but obviously within those rules some apply to cars, some to pedestrians, and s…

Funny. I guess there were never enough bikes in the US to make rules to keep them out of the way.

In the Netherlands, one of the rules is that bikes do not take the middle of a lane, but instead the right side of the right most lane (and if there is a bike path or a bike lane nearby, they have to use that).

So this kind of protest would be impossible, because on any road wide enough that a car and a bike can share a lane, cars can just overtake within the same lane the bike is in.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#227

Post by collyw » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 2:13 PM UTC

pif wrote: post #137

zo7 wrote: post #3

I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. In my town we really only have bike lanes on the two main roads that go up and down the bulk of the city, and they ride dangerously close to lines of parked cars. I was riding downhill once when someone opened their door in front of me without looking -- luckily I managed to get past, but had they opened it a few moments earlier I…

> I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. The only times I saw cyclists in a risky position, they were not respecting neither driving code nor common sense (ex: overtaking on the wrong side, in a narrow space between moving cars and pavement, at an unreasonable speed; or the more classical: ignoring red lights, priorities or forbidden directions).

There is evidence to suggest that running red lights is safer for cyclists. I certainly feel safer when I get a head start and get ahead of the traffic in town.

http://www.rudi.net/node/16395

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#228

Post by throwanem » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

throwaway6734 wrote: post #221

throwanem wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Baltimore is surprisingly much the same, with the delightful twist of cyclists who cheerfully (and ubiquitously) ride on the sidewalks, and who then try to act like you're the asshole when you explain politely to them that they need to get off the God damn sidewalk and into the God damn road. Don't even get me started on cyclists who use the light rail. They're worse than football fans, which is saying a lot; footbal…

Fellow Baltimorean here! My main mode of transportation is cycling. I try my best to use bike lanes and stay in the street and off the side-walk. That being said, sometimes it's scary/unsafe to ride in the street due to having a combination of high-speeds/single lanes/parked cars. Even streets with bicycle lanes (St. Paul St. is a good example) can be uncomfortable due to the above problems. I'm excited for the cycle…

Pleased to meet you! I've spent a lot of time on a bicycle here, especially last year when I was having trouble finding work and needed something to do other than sit home and go crazy. I never found it necessary to ride on the sidewalk, by and large because I was quite willing to avoid busy thoroughfares and use alleys or less heavily traveled parallel streets instead. Going a couple blocks out of my way seemed very much worthwhile when what it bought me was the opportunity to ride without terror.

Don't get me wrong. I know how scary it is to ride on a busy street - there's nothing quite like that feeling of wondering if the next car that overtakes from behind is the one with your name on it. Gets you right in the small of the back, doesn't it? That's almost exactly how it feels to be a pedestrian on a sidewalk with a bike overhauling - except in that case it's a lot more of a surprise, which makes it not one whit more pleasant to go through even if it is over sooner. Spare a thought, won't you?

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#229

Post by ph0rque » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

Thlom wrote: post #152

igf wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bicycles are a tool for turning ordinary people into selfish jerks, jealously guarding their precious forward momentum. A pedestrian doesn't mind if they have to stop for a moment, it's no big deal. A driver doesn't mind stopping for a moment either, it's easy to get back up to speed again. But for a cyclist, having to stop is a minor disaster requiring a massive effort to get back up to speed, so they start behaving…

I'm a pretty relaxed cyclist. I ride more or less upright, but the forward momentum is precious. It's no problem to stop while walking, it takes no more energy to start walking than to continue walking. Same goes for driving a car. On a bike on the other hand, starting to cycle requires much more energy than keeping momentum. That said, some "avid cyclists" are total jerks.

> On a bike on the other hand, starting to cycle requires much more energy than keeping momentum.

Sounds like that can be fixed by having electric bikes that generate energy when braking, which can be used to accelerate again.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#230

Post by pif » Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

Twisell wrote: post #225

pif wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't "emergency brake by courtesy" It's not by courtesy, it's by driving code. And the fact that you don't judge your behaviour dangerous doesn't imply that it's not perceived as dangerous by people around you: as such, you are just egoistically imposing an annoyance to people contrary to their right. In other words, you're misbehaving.

Well I don't know how it work in the USA. But here in France half of the time, if you strictly apply the driving code as a biker and "emergency brake by courtesy", the pedestrian will bluntly look at you with a suspecting look for 5 seconds before eventually crossing. Other half of the times they will say "you go sir" then you debate on who get to go first. At worst you "win" this unwanted honor you then have to slow…

> Well I don't know how it work in the USA. But here in France ...

Btw, I live in France, too. The same happens to me while driving, too. I agree that regaining momentum is much more annoying while riding, rather than driving. Still, a small amount of time is wasted in both cases. I usually take it as an opportunity to exchange a smile with the grateful pedestrian. That's one of the aspects of France I love :-)