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Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

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Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#191

Post by vertex-four »

jomamaxx wrote: post #180
URSpider94 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you agree that we should choose which forms of transit to accommodate based on their needs and their utility? Cycling is a well-established form of transit that many people participate in, and which can serve a large portion of the transit needs of a city in relatively little space and with zero carbon footprint. Getting more people out of cars (and off of buses) and onto bikes requires making them feel safe an…

"Cycling is a well-established form of transit that many people participate in," Many do, but it's very small about 2%. In SF it's 4$, NY it's 1%. And overall in America - it's negligible (outside of cities it's impractical). So - bikes are a distant 4th after cars, public transit and walking. It's not going to change.

In the UK, apparently, 3% of adults cycle every day, and 9% at least once a week. The reason for the difference would likely be that we have many roads on which it is reasonable to cycle, and lots of infrastructure for cyclists - you can cycle to a train station, hop on the train with your bike, and cycle to work on the other end, for example.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#192

Post by m0nty »

infinite8s wrote: post #181
m0nty wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY Anyone just blindly downvoting snovv_crash should check out the video above and any number of other resources, such as this one: http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/cyc... There are strong feelings on both sides, but many cyclists feel helmets are a distraction from the real issues which make cyclists unsafe: poor road design and unsafe driving. Cycling…

How is walking not safe?

You don't have to look far:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... [XLS]

That's 8,643 pedestrians killed between 2000 and 2013 on UK roads. It's not even solely when people are crossing the road: cars frequently mount the pavement (sidewalk) and kill pedestrians.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#193

Post by koolba »

> "Orange cones are really a great prototyping tool," says the activist. "They put something on the ground that's visible. Cars really slow down around orange cones—it's really a remarkable feat of psychology."

Keep this up and pretty soon it'll be like when CNN prefixes a headline with "BREAKING NEWS: ...".

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#194

Post by manarth »

m0nty wrote: post #128
oarsinsync wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That must be why bikes injure 60,000 people per annum in the UK, and kill ~2,000. Then there's the ~40,000 deaths from pollution. Oh wait, that's the cars. 40k deaths from impact from car, or 40k deaths from pollution? The two are not the same. Cars produce a lot of pollution. So do offices. So do busses. So does the underground tube network. Impact from car I'm sure is cause for a lot of injuries and deaths, use t…

> Cyclists need to learn red lights apply to them to. As do motorists. Cars go through red lights all the time but we don't seem to notice, for some reason. If you'd been hit by cars this year, you would have suffered far more serious injuries and possibly death. That hardly ever happens with bikes. My figures for KSI are possibly a little out of date, there are actually 180,000 of them each year in the UK: https://e…

> > Cyclists need to learn red lights apply to them to.

> As do motorists. Cars go through red lights all the time

I'd suggest an experiment: find a central location in a city, and sit down next to a traffic light. Ideally during a commuter period.

Watch for an hour, recording the number of cyclists who jump a red light, and the number of motorised vehicles which jump a red light.

Which would you expect to have the most? Would you expect one to significantly outnumber the other, and by what proportion?

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#195

Post by manarth »

DanBC wrote: post #182
oarsinsync wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have time now to write a comment laying out a comprehensive rebuttal of all the foolishness that some people have suggested here ... bicyclists should have to follow exactly the same rules as drivers In the UK, all vehicles on the road are required to abide by the highway code. Yep, that means bicycles have to follow the same rules as drivers. In the 1990s, schools in the UK ran cycling courses to ensure th…

> In the UK, all vehicles on the road are required to abide by the highway code. Yep, that means bicycles have to follow the same rules as drivers. They're required to follow the road traffic act. The highway code is a simple guide to the road traffic act, and it contains best current practice, but people are not required to follow the highway code.

> The highway code is a simple guide to the road traffic act, and it contains best current practice, but people are not required to follow the highway code.

True, but failing to follow the highway code can result in legal liability.

From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction:

"Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’."

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#196

Post by gerbilly »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #44

As a life-long New Yorker (Manhattan and more recently Brooklyn) I just don't understand why anyone would ever ride a bike in NYC, period. I even stopped rollerblading in NYC when some asshole driving backwards (presumably to get a parking spot) nearly killed me and did knock me silly. I have a motorcycle license I got one summer when I had free time. I learned that cars and pedestrians are your enemy, and that you w…

>rules of the road

Whenever I see a bike article, i do a search for 'rules of the road', there always is at least one, and reply to the comment containing the first match.

I bike to work every day, and I don't follow the rules of the road.

And I am sure than anyone doing the same wouldn't follow them for long either. Show me anyone who stops at a stop sign on a bike, that's just false piety.

Following a bunch of rules and expecting everyone to be safe is naive.

The rules of the road which are designed for cars can get you killed on a bike. There is a left hand turn at the end of my commute just before a rise in the road.

If I try to follow the rules of the road there, I will likely get hit head on by a speeding or distracted car.

In that case i ride on the sidewalk. If there are pedestrians I go walking speed. If I have to I just scooter the bike. Most people are fine with this.

I do follow some rules, though: I am courteous to everyone and I aim to not inconvenience anyone with my riding.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#197

Post by thebakeshow »

jrockway wrote: post #126
dasil003 wrote: post #84

I've spent most of my life with cycling as my primary mode of transportation, living in Minneapolis, Santa Fe, London and SF/Oakland. I ride fast and generally try to go with the flow to avoid inconveniencing drivers while also being considerate to pedestrians. I think this traffic cone thing is pretty cool, but I have a larger observation to make: Here's the thing about SF: everyone is way too fucking agro. Drivers…

The thing we need in the United States are traffic tickets. A lot of people get tickets on freeways (where there is a dedicated highway patrol that exists only to write speeding tickets), but nobody gets ticketed on surface streets, no matter how badly they drive. I see garbage trucks barrelling through red lights at 45mph. I see taxis driving the wrong way down one-way streets. I see black cars driving 60mph down na…

>There was an interesting pilot program to give $50 tickets to people exceeding the speed limit by 30mph in school zones. Tons of opposition.

At least here in Ohio, speeding in a school zone during restricted hours results in doubling the fine and mandatory court.

Also, at 30 mph over the speed limit, the officer can charge you with reckless operation which is a large fine and requires remedial driving lessons.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#198

Post by manarth »

vertex-four wrote: post #191
jomamaxx wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cycling is a well-established form of transit that many people participate in," Many do, but it's very small about 2%. In SF it's 4$, NY it's 1%. And overall in America - it's negligible (outside of cities it's impractical). So - bikes are a distant 4th after cars, public transit and walking. It's not going to change.

In the UK, apparently, 3% of adults cycle every day, and 9% at least once a week. The reason for the difference would likely be that we have many roads on which it is reasonable to cycle, and lots of infrastructure for cyclists - you can cycle to a train station, hop on the train with your bike, and cycle to work on the other end, for example.

> you can cycle to a train station, hop on the train with your bike, and cycle to work on the other end

Sadly, since May 2016, you now need a reservation - at least 2 hours in advance - for a number of First Great Western routes [1]. And you can't reserve online, it's either by phone or at a station's ticket office.

Although folding bikes don't count…maybe FGW has bought stock in Brompton Bikes?

[1] http://road.cc/content/news/183443-train-cycle-reservation-s...

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#199

Post by vertex-four »

manarth wrote: post #198
vertex-four wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, apparently, 3% of adults cycle every day, and 9% at least once a week. The reason for the difference would likely be that we have many roads on which it is reasonable to cycle, and lots of infrastructure for cyclists - you can cycle to a train station, hop on the train with your bike, and cycle to work on the other end, for example.

> you can cycle to a train station, hop on the train with your bike, and cycle to work on the other end Sadly, since May 2016, you now need a reservation - at least 2 hours in advance - for a number of First Great Western routes [1]. And you can't reserve online, it's either by phone or at a station's ticket office. Although folding bikes don't count…maybe FGW has bought stock in Brompton Bikes? [1] http://road.cc/co…

Apparently phone reservations are required on certain ScotRail services as well, although they're trying to get the people running their website to build them a cycle reservation tool. That sucks.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#200

Post by Asooka »

sndean wrote: post #5

Mostly unrelated, but does anyone have (or has seen?) an opinion on self driving cars and how that may impact cyclists on the road? Do you think the shift to autonomous vehicles will make the road safer for people on bikes?

Autonomous cars will absolutely make bicycle riding safer. The robot doesn't hate cyclists. The robot doesn't prioritise speed over safety. The robot will never swipe you, yell at you, make a U-turn, tailgate you, swipe you again, back over your bike, tell you to die and go to hell and speed off.
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