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Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

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Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#21

Post by stephentmcm »

Larrikin wrote: post #7

I don't mind giving up the road to cyclists in cities. I just hope that one day they are finally treated like cars. Bikes on city roads should have to be registered with plates. Bikes in many places in Japan are registered and it makes it a lot easier to figure out when someone is riding a bike they aren't supposed to have. The plates would hopefully go along with police actually enforcing the traffic laws on cyclist…

Seriously? This is easily the worst argument against bicycles I see bought up again and again. Next time you're driving count how many people you see breaking the law be it bicycle, pedestrian or motor vehicle. Now count how many you see receiving fines/being talked to by the police.

But let's go ahead and agree with you and add number plates to bicycles - ignoring the huge costs incurred by the state - how exactly does that help enforce any laws? Bicycles are to small and light to trigger most red light cameras and to slow for speed cameras. So you're only left with visual enforcement by an officer of the law, which will have to physically stop the offender to issue any fines... which... o, hey... you don't need a number plate for that.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#22

Post by bsimpson »

princeb wrote: post #9
vacri wrote: post #6

Orange cones are a novelty. Put them everywhere and behaviour will eventually return to where it was. The same thing happened with high-mounted brakelights on cars - they significantly reduced rear-end collisions for a few years, but eventually the trend returned to where it was beforehand.

> Put them everywhere and behaviour will eventually return to where it was. don't understand this comment - you mean to say vehicle drivers will eventually resume driving on lanes that are separated by traffic cones? i suppose they can... but i assume most drivers will try to avoid knocking/running these things over

Drivers in San Francisco don't hesitate to run over plastic posts that separate some bike lanes from car traffic. Other lanes have cement planters separating them - drivers still manage to park in the bike lane.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#23

Post by dpark »

steveax wrote: post #14
shard972 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

How about as a driver, you don't pass cyclists when it's not safe?

1) Why do you assume he's passing cyclists when it's not safe?

2) It doesn't help unless all drivers do this, which they don't, which is the problem and the point.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#24

Post by Etzos »

apathy wrote: post #10
Larrikin wrote: post #7

I don't mind giving up the road to cyclists in cities. I just hope that one day they are finally treated like cars. Bikes on city roads should have to be registered with plates. Bikes in many places in Japan are registered and it makes it a lot easier to figure out when someone is riding a bike they aren't supposed to have. The plates would hopefully go along with police actually enforcing the traffic laws on cyclist…

Yes because a 20 pound bike does exactly the same damage as a 6000 pound car. Both to driver and victim. Excellent thought process. Also slapping plates on bikes will totally fix the issue of theft. Cars never ever get stolen, because they have plates. I disagree with your underlying assumptions and your suggestions. What you are suggesting would penalize the sorts of people who rely upon their bicycles to get to wor…

I think the bigger problem is that people on bicycles don't always obey the laws which are in place to protect both them and motor vehicle drivers. The parent mentioned cyclists who run through traffic lights and similar infrastructure with wanton disregard for the situation (I have witnessed this many times myself). This creates a situation that is dangerous to everyone involved and is quite illegal. However, there is no recourse as there is no easy way to identify them as you would a motor vehicle as there are no plates or identifying items on the bicycle.

Ultimately I agree that adding plates is a bit extreme, but I think it's also disingenuous to say there is no problem and ignore them.

Edit: I would also like to note that I'm not commenting on motor vehicles disobeying laws in similar situations, they routinely do, however that does not take away from the fact that there is an issue here as well.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#25

Post by Larrikin »

apathy wrote: post #10
Larrikin wrote: post #7

I don't mind giving up the road to cyclists in cities. I just hope that one day they are finally treated like cars. Bikes on city roads should have to be registered with plates. Bikes in many places in Japan are registered and it makes it a lot easier to figure out when someone is riding a bike they aren't supposed to have. The plates would hopefully go along with police actually enforcing the traffic laws on cyclist…

Yes because a 20 pound bike does exactly the same damage as a 6000 pound car. Both to driver and victim. Excellent thought process. Also slapping plates on bikes will totally fix the issue of theft. Cars never ever get stolen, because they have plates. I disagree with your underlying assumptions and your suggestions. What you are suggesting would penalize the sorts of people who rely upon their bicycles to get to wor…

Bicycles are banned on sidewalks in most major cities because a head on collision can still easily cause a fatality. When the existing traffic laws on bikes are rarely enforced, this becomes a much more likely outcome as the laws are ignored.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#26

Post by paulcole »

zo7 wrote: post #3

I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. In my town we really only have bike lanes on the two main roads that go up and down the bulk of the city, and they ride dangerously close to lines of parked cars. I was riding downhill once when someone opened their door in front of me without looking -- luckily I managed to get past, but had they opened it a few moments earlier I…

>I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city.

That's why everyone should try it! To understand that it's not that scary and to better understand their responsibilities as an automobile driver.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#27

Post by wwalser »

steveax wrote: post #14
shard972 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

How about as a driver, you don't pass cyclists when it's not safe?

This person never said that they did pass cyclists while it's unsafe. They only perfectly described what actually does happen. As someone who commuted via cycling daily in Sydney for several years, "I just don't see how you can be safe when…" perfectly reflects my own opinion on the matter. It wasn't safe and I could not be safe and I couldn't imagine how I could be safe. I just chose to do it anyway because it was better for me physically (so no as it wasn't suddenly deadly), the environment and it was faster.

One ought to be able to describe shitty reality without others supposing that they support said shitty reality.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#28

Post by toomanybeersies »

apathy wrote: post #16
zo7 wrote: post #3

I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. In my town we really only have bike lanes on the two main roads that go up and down the bulk of the city, and they ride dangerously close to lines of parked cars. I was riding downhill once when someone opened their door in front of me without looking -- luckily I managed to get past, but had they opened it a few moments earlier I…

I've biked to work in New York, SF, and LA for years. The only reason I don't still do so daily is that I got lazy (I suck). Most cities have ways to make it safer if you're clever (LA in particular has bikeways along its rivers). SF is a "plaintiff friendly jurisdiction" as the phrase goes, but I've had knives and guns pulled on me there too (usually for having the nerve to ask "WTF" after being doored). I'm not hap…

You've had guns pulled on you for riding a push bike?

Only in America.

The worst I ever got when I rode my bike (I also got lazy) was a driver threatening to beat me up (while his wife and kids were in the car) after I had the nerve to turn from the turning lane at the traffic lights. On the other side, my brother pulled a screwdriver on a cyclist once (he's a real piece of work).

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#29

Post by toomanybeersies »

bsimpson wrote: post #17

As a well-traveled cyclist, I yearn for the truely separated roadways my peers ride in other places. In Holland, for instance, their cycletrack treatment is closer to a special sidewalk for bicycles than a repainted stretch of highway. Each mode of transportation (walking, riding, driving, mass transit, etc.) has its own path. This separation of concerns (segmented by both mass and speed) makes getting around safer a…

We're just starting to get separated bike lines in New Zealand, where the bike lane is on the other side of the parked cars, so the parked cars essentially make a barrier.

It's not perfect, you can still get doored by the parked cars, but at least you aren't going to get run over at the same time.

Re: Guerrilla Bike Lanes in San Francisco

#30

Post by brokenmachine »

shard972 wrote: post #8
zo7 wrote: post #3

I don't think non-cyclists realize how much risk you take on when you ride in the city. In my town we really only have bike lanes on the two main roads that go up and down the bulk of the city, and they ride dangerously close to lines of parked cars. I was riding downhill once when someone opened their door in front of me without looking -- luckily I managed to get past, but had they opened it a few moments earlier I…

As a driver it's the main reason I refuse to ride a bike, I don't want to die. Even here in perth that is generally trying to help bike riders I just don't see how it's safe to ride around at 20-30km when the speed limit is 70km and there isn't enough room to overtake without going into the other lane. I just don't see how you can be safe when people are trying to overtake you in giant utes going twice your speed try…

In NSW it is illegal to pass within 1m of a cyclist. I ride to work, and every single day people ignore that rule.

I have never seen anyone fined for it. Our police/government just doesn't care, and attitudes like yours don't help. Cycling on the road is legal and until it isn't, just saying, "I don't see how it's safe" is irrelevant.

I also drive, but I'm capable of not losing my mind and putting other people's lives in danger to save a few seconds on my trip.

If another road user is going too slow for you, you need to suck it up and find a safe, legal place to overtake.

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