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Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

reuters.com

31–40 of 50 posts

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#31
post #5

How to make a headline from boring stuff...: "oblige" and "required" are pretty strong words for what can't be more than a recommendation. ("Die Bevölkerung wird angehalten , einen individuellen Vorrat [...]" is the German quote, which I'd maybe translate as "the public is asked to ") Also, as far as I can tell from the news reports, the report and it's recommendations are about general disaster preparedness, not ter…

Those are indeed strong words. Governments in Europe have considerably more power than in the new world. They can do these things - they view statehood as literally the community. Sometimes that has advantages, sometimes not. Even scarier, is the fact that this is even being done. Since there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster (Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to…

> there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster (Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to a terrorist threat.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Germany has floods, snow storms, etc. The government has to think about disaster protection and what it means in a modern society, which depends on concepts like 'always on'. Plans are twenty years old and need to be updated.

A few years ago there were some parts of Germany without electricity for a few days and some were not reachable, because of a winter storm, which damaged large power lines.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrill_(storm)

Example for a flood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_European_floods

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#32

There are elections in two states and federal elections coming up in 2017. Security and refugees are the main topics. The governing parties are trying to sound hard to stop the rise of the populist AFD by adjusting to the right. Especially the CSU, which since the beginning of time governs Bavaria (where the attacks happended) and traditionally was the rightmost not yet extremist party, tries to compete with populism…

Just to underscore that, the leader of the Alternative for Germany party (Frauke Petry) only yesterday spoke out in favor of people arming themselves with guns and self-defense devices after all the violent attacks last month:

"German right-wing leader backs citizens' right to arm themselves" - http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN10V0A5

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#33

German speaking here. It's important to know that there are regional (Landtag) elections coming up, and the right-wing AfD tries to paint current politicians as a bunch of incompetent people incapable of providing security for the German people - and the established politicians react with populist stuff like this and the idea of forbidding double citizenship and Niqabs. Everything that sounds like populist bullsh*t c…

By 'populism' you mean 'people speaking their minds'? And that they should be ignored? By 'populism' do you mean the vast majority of Europeans and clear majority of Germans who are not supportive of the 'open doors' immigration policy? Especially those made by diktat - without popular consultation, without legal consideration, without a vote in parliament - which affects the entirety of Europe? Maybe Germans can hav…

> By 'populism' you mean 'people speaking their minds'? And that they should be ignored?

AfD is openly cooperating with organized neo-nazis (e.g. PEGIDA).

> By 'populism' do you mean the vast majority of Europeans and clear majority of Germans who are not supportive of the 'open doors' immigration policy?

"clear majority of Germans"? Oh no. AfD and friends are a tiny, but vocal and hateful group. Just like Trump.

> And by the way - your argument does not work in your favour: it is not the AfD telling people to prepare - it's the actual government wherein there is no AfD people to make such claims.

The ones responsible for the fear-mongering are the conservative parties in the government (CDU, CSU). They desperately want to prevent more success for the AfD by copying the fear-mongering strategy of the AfD. Needless to say that the "appeasement" policy both fuels the AfD and moves the direction of the government more and more to the right end.

> The very fact that the government - weary of people acting out against Muslims - is willing to make this statement says a lot about the actual threat environment.

The threat is not Islamist terrorism. The threat is a massive explosion of right-extremist violence - in 2015 alone, over a thousand attacks on refugee camps/homes occurred, 92 of those arsons, the rest open violence, Hakenkreuz graffitis etc; just recently neo-Nazis stabbed a young member of Die LINKE party, a pro-Refugee mayor (Henriette Reker of Cologne) got stabbed, neo-Nazis rioted in Heidenau exactly one year ago.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#34
How is this in any way noteworthy? Lots of governments recommend a small personal stockpile. The Swiss government recommends that every resident stockpiles at least six weeks'[0] worth of food.

Making an issue of such a policy in light of recent attacks is nothing but fear-mongering.

[0] It may have been six months' worth. I forget, and don't have the source on me right now.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#35
post #11

I never thought about it before but now I wonder if I should have a small stock just in case. Nothing serious, maybe 2 weeks worth of stuff to live on. That I can have and forget, not maintain indefinately. Anyone have something like that? Any tips?

Everyone should have at least 3 days of food and water stockpiled. Especially if you live in an area where you might experience a natural or man-made disaster (doesn't Turkey get lots of earthquakes?).

You want food that can be eaten unheated, all the better if it's not in cans so you don't need a can opener. Get some biscuits or crackers, some canned meat (corned beef or tuna), and canned or dehydrated vegetables (soaking them works well enough). Dehydrated potatoes are also light and compact, and provide good energy. Chocolate is also a great compact source of energy, and lasts for a long time. Grab some muesli/granola bars as well for eating on the go.

A standard tin of corned beef will last a couple of days. A mixture of corned beef, dehydrated potatoes, and dehydrated peas will keep you going for a long time. I've eaten a pot of it all mixed together and gone until the evening eating hardly anything while climbing mountains.

As for water, you'll want at least 2 litres per day, and you'll want to rotate your stock every 6-12 months as water does go stale.

If you want to set yourself up for longer term, I'd suggest getting a gas cooker or something to cook on, and then you can also boil water to get clean water. The alternative for long term water is iodine or other purification tablets, but they taste nasty.

Apart from food, you'll also want to keep some medical supplies: bandages, sling, tape, gloves (these are important!). Toilet paper is also essential.

You'll want to keep all this stuff in a box or bag that you can easily grab and get the fuck out. I live in an earthquake prone area, so it pays to be prepared here.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#36
post #30
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, food is easy enough - canned food doesn't take up much space and is easy to keep stocked, assuming you regularly rotate through it so that it doesn't expire. The harder part is water, as just a few days worth of drinking water for one person can take up a huge amount of space.

The harder part is water, as just a few days worth of drinking water for one person can take up a huge amount of space. Eh??? A generally "comfortable" minimal budget for water is 1 gallon per day (3.8 liters, call it 4), although you might need more on hot summer days. A 5 gallon container is, with all the plastic and features for stack-ability, going to take up less than a cubic foot (19,000 cc). It's not compact l…

You can get a portable desalinator! Why not?

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#37

There are elections in two states and federal elections coming up in 2017. Security and refugees are the main topics. The governing parties are trying to sound hard to stop the rise of the populist AFD by adjusting to the right. Especially the CSU, which since the beginning of time governs Bavaria (where the attacks happended) and traditionally was the rightmost not yet extremist party, tries to compete with populism…

Just to underscore that, the leader of the Alternative for Germany party (Frauke Petry) only yesterday spoke out in favor of people arming themselves with guns and self-defense devices after all the violent attacks last month: "German right-wing leader backs citizens' right to arm themselves" - http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN10V0A5

I think with a population of 80 million, you cannot entirely avoid shootings. 9 people died in Munich and this is horrible. And while each one on there is terrible, the Wikipedia category for German shootings [0] is small. The obvious comparison with the US shows that arming the population would be very counterproductive. So when I read stuff like that, I am asking myself whether she actually is that stupid or whether she knows exactly what she says and just tries to manipulate the people and what would be worse.

The only positive thing to note about the latest rise of the far-right parties in Europe is that it nicely debunked the morale high ground of women in politics. They can be just as evil/corrupt/populist/human, the liberal ones were just the first who showed up.

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Amoklauf_in_Deutschl...

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are indeed strong words. Governments in Europe have considerably more power than in the new world. They can do these things - they view statehood as literally the community. Sometimes that has advantages, sometimes not. Even scarier, is the fact that this is even being done. Since there are no external threats and 0 chance of environmental disaster (Germany doesn't get floods and hurricanes etc.) - it speaks to…

0 chance of floods, really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_European_floods And do you have a source for your claim that only 1/4 of recent asylum seekers were refugees?

+ 20% of refugees arriving are Syrian (this is early on in the crises)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refug...

+ Germany has 100K Syrian asylum requests in Sept 2015. This would be 10% of the official number of migrants, and less than that including many who are off the books:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/09/world/welcome-syrian-refugees-...

+ Germany can have flooding, but it's in very specific areas. Germany does not face the kinds of catastrophic environmental issues that happen in the US - like right now in Louisiana. There is no chance that floods in Germany will affect mass populations. It's in isolated areas, usually by rivers. To get 'food and water' they can 'walk up the hill'. 'Flooding' has never been a concern on this scale, it's not why they are issuing the order.

+ About 1/2 of those receiving direct asylum in 2015 were Syrians - they get an 'acceptance rate' of almost 100%. But only about 1/2 of those entering - by official figures - are making the applications. Which means 'officially' - only about 1/4 are Syrian. Syrians are not going to be represented in those that have not applied, because they are almost guaranteed to be accepted.

In 2015 DE had 441K applicants, but had over 900K 'migrants' - again - the 'official' numbers, with many estimates much larger.

Wikipedia has some decent numbers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

'Open Borders' was a sever act of utter irresponsibility on the part of Angela Merkel - who caused the flood crises by inviting anyone with the ability to do this.

I was in Tunisia recently and it was common for people to talk openly about 'going to Germany'. Tunisians are definitely listed as 'safe country of origin' and are not going to have their refugee claims accepted.

The 'responsible' thing to do would be to fly in refugees directly from camps. It would be cheaper as well.

Angela Merkels actions resulted in 100's of thousands of people, flooding across tiny nations such as Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Hungary and creative massive calamity and disruption, and creating political chaos in those countries.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#39
post #36
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harder part is water, as just a few days worth of drinking water for one person can take up a huge amount of space. Eh??? A generally "comfortable" minimal budget for water is 1 gallon per day (3.8 liters, call it 4), although you might need more on hot summer days. A 5 gallon container is, with all the plastic and features for stack-ability, going to take up less than a cubic foot (19,000 cc). It's not compact l…

You can get a portable desalinator! Why not?

I was born and raised in, and have retired to a town famous for its distance from any large body of water, let alone salt water (Joplin, MO), and most Germans aren't on their coast as well.

Here, if I run out of stored water, along those lines I need purifying capability, such as coffee filters for coarse filtering, then any one of a number of chemical methods, e.g. plain household bleach, or a serious small pore filter such as Katadyn specializes in.

Re: Germany to tell people to stockpile food and water in case of attacks

#40
post #30
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, food is easy enough - canned food doesn't take up much space and is easy to keep stocked, assuming you regularly rotate through it so that it doesn't expire. The harder part is water, as just a few days worth of drinking water for one person can take up a huge amount of space.

The harder part is water, as just a few days worth of drinking water for one person can take up a huge amount of space. Eh??? A generally "comfortable" minimal budget for water is 1 gallon per day (3.8 liters, call it 4), although you might need more on hot summer days. A 5 gallon container is, with all the plastic and features for stack-ability, going to take up less than a cubic foot (19,000 cc). It's not compact l…

I disagree, you can get by on 2 litres of water per day. You're obviously not going to be having showers and brushing your teeth with it, but that's not the end of the world.

Hell, I go through only about 6 litres of water a day while climbing mountains in the summer.

Remember that food also contains water when looking at minimum intakes.

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