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An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

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Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#51

Post by madaxe_again »

dhimes wrote: post #48
keerthiko wrote: post #46

Am I the only one bothered by an American writer using the term "expat" to describe himself and other foreigners in a country, when the standard term used for the counterpart people in America is "immigrant" or "migrant worker"? American dialogue has been building a language of discrimination that I find extremely insulting as a non-US national in America, which spawns the whole anti-"immigrant" sentiment dominant in…

I think it depends on your reference. With reference to your home country, you are an expat. Referring to your new home, you are an immigrant.

No, you're an emigrant with reference to your "home country". But I suppose that sounds too much like immigrant, which has become an epithet.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#52

Post by jacobolus »

madaxe_again wrote: post #51
dhimes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on your reference. With reference to your home country, you are an expat. Referring to your new home, you are an immigrant.

No, you're an emigrant with reference to your "home country". But I suppose that sounds too much like immigrant, which has become an epithet.

Expatriate is a synonym for emigrant. The word expatriate emphasizes the current status living outside the native country, while the word emigrant emphasizes the traveling process.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#53

Post by [deleted] »

keerthiko wrote: post #49
dhimes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on your reference. With reference to your home country, you are an expat. Referring to your new home, you are an immigrant.

I don't think that's the usage here at all. The author is talking the entire time from within China and the perspective of culture within China, and refers to himself and his fellow foreigners as expats. By your description he should be using the term immigrant, since he isn't writing the article from the perspective of American/European soil.

[deleted]

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#54

Post by madaxe_again »

jacobolus wrote: post #52
madaxe_again wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're an emigrant with reference to your "home country". But I suppose that sounds too much like immigrant, which has become an epithet.

Expatriate is a synonym for emigrant . The word expatriate emphasizes the current status living outside the native country, while the word emigrant emphasizes the traveling process.

It's a synonym for immigrant, exclusively for white people.

Emigrant is what an immigrant is relative to their home country. The verb is "emigration", which mirrors "immigration".

Don't take my word for it, refer to a dictionary, or this article.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#55

Post by mnglkhn2 »

madaxe_again wrote: post #54
jacobolus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expatriate is a synonym for emigrant . The word expatriate emphasizes the current status living outside the native country, while the word emigrant emphasizes the traveling process.

It's a synonym for immigrant , exclusively for white people. Emigrant is what an immigrant is relative to their home country. The verb is "emigration", which mirrors "immigration". Don't take my word for it, refer to a dictionary, or this article. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...

You're immigrant to the host country and an emigrant to your country of origin. Exit/Emigrate from country A and In/Immigrate to country B.

Expat somehow has the connotation that you will return, which is the equivalent of migrant worker. Immigrant assumes one wants to make the new host country a permanent one.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#56

Post by jacobolus »

madaxe_again wrote: post #54
jacobolus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expatriate is a synonym for emigrant . The word expatriate emphasizes the current status living outside the native country, while the word emigrant emphasizes the traveling process.

It's a synonym for immigrant , exclusively for white people. Emigrant is what an immigrant is relative to their home country. The verb is "emigration", which mirrors "immigration". Don't take my word for it, refer to a dictionary, or this article. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...

We’re speaking the English language here, and the usual context where this word comes up is conversations among English people, or Americans, or more generally English-speaking Europeans ...

England has a long colonial history, wherein they sent colonists, soldiers, merchants, engineers, diplomats, bureaucrats, etc. to far flung parts of their world, inside and outside their empire. Some of these folks moved around from country to country, or migrated seasonally back to their homeland, while a few settled down in their adopted countries.

Some of these folks are unquestionably emigrants, while others are transients, but their minority enclave communities can be easily summed up by calling them expatriates. A description like expatriate community is more informative than emigrant enclave or whatever.

The word expatriate emphasizes that these folks are (in general) not intending to assimilate, and see themselves as foreigners in the countries where they are living.

The same word could equally be applied to “non-white” migrants to “white” countries, if you wanted. I have heard such usage before, and it was not controversial or confusing in context.

But of course any words related to migration have racial/class overtones. We’re talking about humans here. Pretty much everything people do involves some amount of social posturing.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#57

Post by GoToRO »

keerthiko wrote: post #46

Am I the only one bothered by an American writer using the term "expat" to describe himself and other foreigners in a country, when the standard term used for the counterpart people in America is "immigrant" or "migrant worker"? American dialogue has been building a language of discrimination that I find extremely insulting as a non-US national in America, which spawns the whole anti-"immigrant" sentiment dominant in…

for me you are an expat if you are 1-2 years in one country, and then another, and then another. You follow the business with no intention to settle in one country.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#59

Post by mc32 »

keerthiko wrote: post #46

Am I the only one bothered by an American writer using the term "expat" to describe himself and other foreigners in a country, when the standard term used for the counterpart people in America is "immigrant" or "migrant worker"? American dialogue has been building a language of discrimination that I find extremely insulting as a non-US national in America, which spawns the whole anti-"immigrant" sentiment dominant in…

Expat is typically someone who is sent to work for a company's foreign offices/overseas offices and who will return to their home country after their "tour" is over. I.e. their residency depends on their company's sponsorship --the company you work for is doing all the paperwork and paying all incidental costs for you.

An immigrant is someone who moves overseas or to a foreign country on their own accord without the help of a company. You're getting visas and residency on your own.

So for example, a Kiwi working on the production lines in Toyota city is likely an immigrant. A Kiwi manager in finance in Toyoda city is likely an ex-pat. It's also likely these two don't run in the same circles.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#60

Post by mwfunk »

Numberwang wrote: post #5
xiaoma wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article clearly talked of how they aren't. Though motorbike taxis are illegal, they are ubiquitous except for temporary crackdowns. Though the raves were against the rules, they were advertised publicly for four years before any action was taken and there will be more publicly advertised raves that police ignore next year.

I don't really understand your point. Not every speeder in the US are caught. Would you say the police doing temporary crackdowns is not a good thing? We should celebrate the police here for doing a good job trying to uphold law and order. Perhaps if they had more resources they could go after the other cases of lawbreaking mentioned, not as part of the main story, in the article.

That's right, police doing temporary crackdowns on this scale, in this manner, and for this purpose is 100% not a good thing. This is not analogous to a speed trap or even DUI checkpoints.

Are you saying that you literally can't think of a single way in which this may have been handled better by the police? If it's not even remotely understood to be illegal by the participants, why the heck would any police force in the world treat it like a honeypot, wait for everyone to assemble (like they apparently have been doing for years), then show up in riot gear and arrest everyone? That's crazy.

By the way, it doesn't matter one bit if something analogous to this happens in the US sometimes, that doesn't make it any better. Not a bit. If this happened in the US people would be just as upset about it. I'm really confused why anyone would respond to something bad happening in China with, "but similar bad things happen in the US sometimes". That's really missing the point. That's like saying that human rights violations in the US somehow excuse human rights violations elsewhere. It's bad no matter where it happens and it doesn't do anyone any good to pretend otherwise.

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