Live data from Hacker News

Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

reuters.com

471–480 of 539 posts

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#471
post #397

The capitalist model, the concept of 'disruption', Adam Smith's precepts work well when they allow individuals to control their choices, their fate, their destiny. When the transactions exceed human scale - when they become so big, so far reaching, so expensive that the participants are powerless to make changes, then capitalism fails. It fails because the 'losers' suffer even if they try to adapt. They cannot compet…

>I would really like to see silicon valley startups that offer a new and better forms of local government. I would like to see our political system get improved by disruption. I really believe politicians are vastly overpaid for the non-service they provide.

There was an idyllic notion in the heads of some of the founders of the US that the many towns could be thousands of little laboratories, each testing their own ideas and then, as a wider community of towns, naturally coalescing around the ideas that worked best. The problem, as I see it, is that they don't have the agility and flexibility of a laboratory or startup. In modern times (in the US), towns act as franchises rather than labs, with the exceptions of large cities and a few other special places.

For example, I think most people can instinctively feel the unpleasantness of a place with large chain retailers and restaurants lining the sides of a 6 lane, 40MPH road with openings and stop lights everywhere. Nonetheless, they're everywhere in the US. Places without these awful (and horrendously expensive) development patterns are the exception. The reason is because the US government pushes development decisions. They do it not by saying 'thou shalt construct car sewers,' but through more subtle means. Since 1934, it has been artificially expensive to build multi-use buildings with dwellings over a shop because you can't get an FHA-compliant mortgage and the accompanying subsidies. We push common road engineering standards, which works great for highways, but then towns build highway-compliant roads in town to get federal grants.

Then each state has its own set of policies that create perverse incentives in curious ways. Actually, in CA the state government did effectively mandate car sewers for decades by deciding that car idling and congestion were environmental impacts that had to be mitigated (with more highway-spec supersized roads.)

Anyway, all this is to say: give local governments a little credit. Certainly some of them are bad, and this article shows a particularly disheartening variant, but in a lot of cases it's an issue of asking mere mortals to prevail over the huge obstructions built by other governing bodies.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? You have it backwards. Humans have always had to suck it up because this is the default, natural state. But one would think in XXI century we could do better. That we can show some civilization, some compassion, instead of telling the unfortunate among us that they should suck it up. They're not our slaves to be forced into productive jobs, or resources to be used up a…

>They're not our slaves to be forced into productive jobs Slaves no but being forced in to productive jobs is the whole point of tying income to market demands. A force which effects us all not just taxi drivers. >The deserve some help Sure. Financial aid to reskill. Unemployment benefits while they job hunt. Hell, as I said, I'm for a basic income presuming I get to not work alongside the ex-taxi drivers. Help doesn…

This whole thing reminds me of my favorite Heinlein quote:

“There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute or common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back.”

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how much money you have, you can't buy a better coke. Income inequality is a misleading metric. I would argue that equality has vastly increased over the years. The rich don't really live much better lives than the middle class. Rich or poor we all have roofs over our heads, we all have access to relatively affordable methods of travel to get anywhere in the world in a day, we all use the same IPhones, watc…

> No matter how much money you have, you can't buy a better coke. You absolutely can though. There are lots of premium soda brands out there on the market that cost significantly more than Coca-Cola that are made with better ingredients (such as real sugar, not HFCS), that are healthier for you, that use better artificial sugars, that have real flavoring so they don't need as much sugar to taste good (see GuS), etc.…

Fair point.

Though I would argue that those options are only marginally better, and may as well be the same.

For example, most people can't tell the difference between a 20 dollar wine and a 200 dollar wine. So the rich and poor effectively have access to the same thing.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#474
Interesting excerpt that makes me support the move:

    The 5-cent fee will be collected through the end of 2021.
    Then the taxi subsidy will disappear and the 20 cents will
    be split by localities and the state for five years.
    The whole fee will go away at the end of 2026.
They know they're fucked. The question remains: will they be able to use this temporary subsidy so they can become more "sovereign individuals" in the future?

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy most certainly does not fail at closer inspection. Do you disavow all innovation? Does innovation render people who don't have degrees useless? Certainly not. Quite the contrary, innovation makes them more productive and increases their wage earning ability.

Umm, I'm not sure you understood my point. How are they going to earn more? They don't have degrees to fall back on, and the only skill they have is driving taxis. They're going to be replaced by younger people willing to work for less who rely on GPS instead and aren't hampered by needing any training, certification, or medallions. No one is going to hire someone less qualified than a recent graduate, especially one…

> Umm, I'm not sure you understood my point.

I understand your point. I'm asking if you apply the same logic to all innovation.

You are focusing solely on the displacement of taxi drivers and using that as justification to oppose innovation that makes taxi drivers more productive.

Do you oppose bulldozers? Certainly one person who operates a bulldozer can do the work of several who only have shovels. Do you really want to tax the bulldozer operator to pay for people to dig with shovels?

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#476

You and a friend are stranded on an island. You both spend all your working hours catching fish by hand in order to eat. You use some leisure time to build a fishing rod, which enables just one of you to catch enough fish to feed you both. It would be foolish to destroy the fishing rod to preserve both your jobs as fishermen. One of you would fish and the other would do something else, like build shelter and cut fire…

For this analogy to work the ridesharing services would need to give taxi companies a lot more than a nickel a ride.

The specific value of the subsidy is completely irrelevant to the analogy.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#477
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeownership is capital accumulation. I'm not sure that a system where a large part of GDP is directed at stock purchase is sustainable; that's how private pensions are supposed to work but the system is creaking.

Additionally, home-ownership has the unique feature to be financed with money which would otherwise be a sunken cost. I like the idea of some kind of modern/virtual self-sustained living, where you own your house, produce your own energy and cover all costs by dividends from stocks of the same companies you buy products from.

Ownership by the workers of the means of production and distribution! ;)

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#478
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them don't want to go back to school or get technical training... What do we tell the taxi and truck drivers when Uber shows up with self-drivers, etc.? Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I know plenty of people on hn are all about the "making the world a better place" shtick and would work anyway/for the sake of it but for the vast majority of people work straight up means doing things you otherw…

>Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? A lot of these people are older. Also, it's gotten to the point that the rate of 'disruption' is too fast for a human lifespan. It's one thing if horses are replaced by tractors in half a human generation. People can adapt to that and even benefit. It's another if entire industries are replaced every decade. Once the rate of change becomes too fast, people simply can't…

This is a great point. We spent so much time trying to see if technology actually followed Moore's Law that we forgot the implications of such growth causing the rapid outmoding of people's skill level several times within a typical lifetime.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#479
post #380

You and a friend are stranded on an island. You both spend all your working hours catching fish by hand in order to eat. You use some leisure time to build a fishing rod, which enables just one of you to catch enough fish to feed you both. It would be foolish to destroy the fishing rod to preserve both your jobs as fishermen. One of you would fish and the other would do something else, like build shelter and cut fire…

The number of professions don't go up, and will certainly diminish in the future. Switching professions as a young person without a dependent family is not all that hard. But as a family father/mother, it's not always possible to spend the time to switch professions. Today most of the jobs have qualification, experience and age requirements. > There is certainly temporary pain endured by workers who are displaced by…

lol you're trolling me, right?

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't pay taxes with rabbits and hand made clothes.

There are neither income taxes nor property taxes to be paid on rabbits or handmade items.

I don't think there are any jurisdictions that are free of property taxes. How would you pay those?
Post reply on HN