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An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

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Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#11

Post by pipio21 »

sneak wrote: post #9
tormeh wrote: post #8

Reminds me of Berlin parties in S-bahn stations or beneath bridges, usually around Warschauer. Those cannot possibly be legal, but nobody bothers to stop them.

The police here are remarkably tolerant of most victimless crimes, thankfully.

I would not consider some action that has no victims to be a crime, but just going against the law. The law could be wrong itself.

For example, if you see a woman driving in Saudi Arabia, it goes against the law, but is not a crime.

Another example, in the US having a kid drinking wine goes against the law. As a kid in Spain and France I drunk a glass of wine in all meals, like the rest of my family and it is very healthy.

You get used to the rules in your country, but this does not mean that the laws are good. For instance a foreigner going into the US will probably consider barbaric the tradition of circumcising kids when they are born( I thought it myself), but locals rationalize and defend it(like locals in Saudi Arabia do with women driving).

A kid can drive a car but not drink a glass of wine? Utter non sense, but real.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#12

Post by mahranch »

Numberwang wrote: post #5
xiaoma wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article clearly talked of how they aren't. Though motorbike taxis are illegal, they are ubiquitous except for temporary crackdowns. Though the raves were against the rules, they were advertised publicly for four years before any action was taken and there will be more publicly advertised raves that police ignore next year.

I don't really understand your point. Not every speeder in the US are caught. Would you say the police doing temporary crackdowns is not a good thing? We should celebrate the police here for doing a good job trying to uphold law and order. Perhaps if they had more resources they could go after the other cases of lawbreaking mentioned, not as part of the main story, in the article.

> I don't really understand your point.

The point is the inconsistent enforcement of laws. And you can be assured that if someone was wealthy enough, the laws don't apply to them. I think that's what the author was talking about when he said 25 people who had tested positive for drugs were let go and not held. They were probably connected somehow, or paid a bribe. China is an incredibly corrupt country where bribes are standard practice. (Source: Bribes the Unspoken Rule in China: http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardlevick/2015/01/21/new-dat... and Corruption Index: https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results )

Moreover, their inconsistent enforcement of the law is why they have such a shitty environmental record/problem. China has laws on the books regarding pollution and the environment comparable to that of the U.S believe it or not. But they do not enforce any of them. They don't have the equivalent of the EPA who's sole job it is to go after offenders. Some inspector shows up wanting to see your carbon scrubbers on your exhaust towers? "Oh, I must have forgot your birthday, here's a wad of cash. See you next year." I witnessed something shockingly similar to that happen on a plant tour in 2013. I was dumbfounded and speechless. The plant manager thought it was a big joke.

I have nearly 2 dozen unique stamps in my passport over the last 15 years. China is the only stamp I will never have a duplicate of. I've been to some pretty bad areas and countries and China's wasn't "I fear for my safety bad", well, if I'm being honest it was a little, but I like that. It's exciting. No, it was "Holy crap this culture is complete backwards and toxic." People care very little about their fellow man/neighbor and I was disgusted by it. It seemed like everyone was trying to pull a scam on everyone else. I felt slimy watching it happen.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#13

Post by calibraxis »

gcb0 wrote: post #6
Numberwang wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand your point. Not every speeder in the US are caught. Would you say the police doing temporary crackdowns is not a good thing? We should celebrate the police here for doing a good job trying to uphold law and order. Perhaps if they had more resources they could go after the other cases of lawbreaking mentioned, not as part of the main story, in the article.

this is comparable to the police cracking down a club in the soho in ny then arresting everyone because of marijuana. not speeding tickets. the middle class expect exemption from rules that are normally applied to poor and minorities. see also how in the usa someone can be arrested and have money confiscated if they can't prove its origin to the officer searching the car. this is unthinkable for the middle class. but…

Good point. And the middle class damages itself with their lack of solidarity with the poor and minorities. Because the condition of the poor is the threat which keeps the middle class in line.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#15

Post by HairyGing3r »

holdenc wrote: post #10

I'd say welcome to China, but let's be realistic. America offers plenty of opportunities to get locked up for 24 hours for breaking selectively enforced laws (protest anything lately?) and then perhaps even worse for resisting arrest.

In Missouri you get fined for having mismatched blinds, and not having money to pay that fine will get you into court/ private prison.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#16

Post by roel_v »

sneak wrote: post #9
tormeh wrote: post #8

Reminds me of Berlin parties in S-bahn stations or beneath bridges, usually around Warschauer. Those cannot possibly be legal, but nobody bothers to stop them.

The police here are remarkably tolerant of most victimless crimes, thankfully.

This sort of raves violates all sorts of environmental and health and safety codes. It only takes one fire with a couple dead to make them all go away. Look, I used to like raves when I was younger, but it's silly to claim that anybody should be allowed to organize anything anywhere without regard for the neighbors, safety of visitors or work load of emergency services.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#17

Post by adhearn »

pipio21 wrote: post #11
sneak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police here are remarkably tolerant of most victimless crimes, thankfully.

I would not consider some action that has no victims to be a crime, but just going against the law. The law could be wrong itself. For example, if you see a woman driving in Saudi Arabia, it goes against the law, but is not a crime. Another example, in the US having a kid drinking wine goes against the law. As a kid in Spain and France I drunk a glass of wine in all meals, like the rest of my family and it is very he…

Although it is usually wrong to argue by definition, in this case "goes against the law" means it is a crime by definition. Just because you don't like the law doesn't it make it less of a law.

I think a lot of your examples are a little bit misguided, a case of not understanding the reasoning behind laws. Sometimes, things are illegible because we lack the correct perspective, not because they're fundamentally wrong.

For example, at least in some parts of the United States (Texas is the one I'm familiar with, but others might exist), it is legal for minors to consume alcohol, even in restaurants, with parental supervision (https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/APIS_State_Profile.html?...).

The reason children can drive cars relatively young in the United States has several factors, but one of the big ones is the distance between places. I had a roommate who started driving to school when he was 14 or 15 because it was the only way for him to efficiently get to his school, which was still a 25 minute drive. There was some sort of special licensing in Iowa for children that young to drive to and from school unsupervised, because it wasn't efficient to try to bus everyone in. Now, you might still think this is a bad law, but it's not like they just made up a driving age for fun. The social, economic, and political reality of certain areas of the United States makes driving far more valuable than in many other places in the world, simply because practical transportation alternatives do not exist.

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#18

Post by kaybe »

HairyGing3r wrote: post #15
holdenc wrote: post #10

I'd say welcome to China, but let's be realistic. America offers plenty of opportunities to get locked up for 24 hours for breaking selectively enforced laws (protest anything lately?) and then perhaps even worse for resisting arrest.

In Missouri you get fined for having mismatched blinds, and not having money to pay that fine will get you into court/ private prison.

Is that enforced at all? Regularly?

Re: An Expat Has Time to Reflect, Now That the Party’s Over

#19

Post by muninn_ »

pipio21 wrote: post #11
sneak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police here are remarkably tolerant of most victimless crimes, thankfully.

I would not consider some action that has no victims to be a crime, but just going against the law. The law could be wrong itself. For example, if you see a woman driving in Saudi Arabia, it goes against the law, but is not a crime. Another example, in the US having a kid drinking wine goes against the law. As a kid in Spain and France I drunk a glass of wine in all meals, like the rest of my family and it is very he…

Right. Or like in France wearing a burqa will get you in trouble, or in Australia if you watch porn where the woman's vagina isn't state approved you'll get in trouble. There are all sorts of laws all over that just insane.
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