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Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

reuters.com

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Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#391

Post by 102310201 »

jwallaceparker wrote: post #336
cooper12 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that the taxi drivers are right, but your example ignores the education and certification that modern professions require. These days most professions require degrees. Taxi drivers need to be certified and that requires memorizing tons of routes. Taxi drivers are exactly the crowd that doesn't have a college education, severely hampering their mobility to other professions except ones which are worse.…

The analogy most certainly does not fail at closer inspection. Do you disavow all innovation? Does innovation render people who don't have degrees useless? Certainly not. Quite the contrary, innovation makes them more productive and increases their wage earning ability.

Your premise is wrong: There hardly is any innovation. At least in Europe I've never had any kind of trouble just picking up the phone and, you know, getting a competent cab driver very quickly.

But The U.S. seems to be some third world country that can manufacture nukes and computers but is unable to get the most basic things right.

This apparently applies to banking, the electricity grid, health care and lots of other things that are solved problems in other parts of the world (i.e. no innovation is needed).

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#392

Post by 40something »

Massachusetts is literally run by tyrants. No one cared when the attorney general trampled over the constitution by banning the sale of built to compliant "assault" weapons and now this. The disarmed populace has to just take it. The rulers know best.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#393

Post by sebastianconcpt »

rev_bird wrote: post #2

This is a pretty surreal move: >The law says the money will help taxi businesses to adopt "new technologies and advanced service, safety and operational capabilities" and to support workforce development... [Larry Meister, manager of the Boston area's Independent Taxi Operator's Association] said the money could go toward improving a smartphone app his association has started using, or to other big needs. I'm not an…

Totally agree. The only part I think you are missing is the part in which one stops being accepting on regulation because always ends in some form of distortion to what's best.

Taxi drivers need to become one of the providers of these new services and things wil go well

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#394

Post by JoeAltmaier »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #393
rev_bird wrote: post #2

This is a pretty surreal move: >The law says the money will help taxi businesses to adopt "new technologies and advanced service, safety and operational capabilities" and to support workforce development... [Larry Meister, manager of the Boston area's Independent Taxi Operator's Association] said the money could go toward improving a smartphone app his association has started using, or to other big needs. I'm not an…

Totally agree. The only part I think you are missing is the part in which one stops being accepting on regulation because always ends in some form of distortion to what's best. Taxi drivers need to become one of the providers of these new services and things wil go well

There aren't enough of them. And regulation limits the number, solely so they can profit more. No way is the taxi industry going to 'go well' with a little more automation. Well, not for the public anyway.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#395

Post by IsaacL »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #331
Trundle wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them don't want to go back to school or get technical training... What do we tell the taxi and truck drivers when Uber shows up with self-drivers, etc.? Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I know plenty of people on hn are all about the "making the world a better place" shtick and would work anyway/for the sake of it but for the vast majority of people work straight up means doing things you otherw…

> Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? You have it backwards. Humans have always had to suck it up because this is the default, natural state. But one would think in XXI century we could do better. That we can show some civilization, some compassion, instead of telling the unfortunate among us that they should suck it up. They're not our slaves to be forced into productive jobs, or resources to be used up a…

The taxi drivers in this story are not being "forced into jobs". They're forcing others (app developers) to give them money. Or they're forcing customers to use their services over someone else.

Don't equivocate on the word "force". If you get the government to make people do things, that's force. If people aren't giving you money they are not "forcing" you to work for your money.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#396

Post by JoeAltmaier »

102310201 wrote: post #391
jwallaceparker wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy most certainly does not fail at closer inspection. Do you disavow all innovation? Does innovation render people who don't have degrees useless? Certainly not. Quite the contrary, innovation makes them more productive and increases their wage earning ability.

Your premise is wrong: There hardly is any innovation. At least in Europe I've never had any kind of trouble just picking up the phone and, you know, getting a competent cab driver very quickly. But The U.S. seems to be some third world country that can manufacture nukes and computers but is unable to get the most basic things right. This apparently applies to banking, the electricity grid, health care and lots of ot…

Doesn't "pick up the phone and get a competent driver very quickly" describe Uber perfectly? So America gets it right and still can't win.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#397

Post by bawana »

The capitalist model, the concept of 'disruption', Adam Smith's precepts work well when they allow individuals to control their choices, their fate, their destiny. When the transactions exceed human scale - when they become so big, so far reaching, so expensive that the participants are powerless to make changes, then capitalism fails. It fails because the 'losers' suffer even if they try to adapt. They cannot compete because the the 'winning side' is so new with fewer legacy costs. The losers necessarily must die and become assimilated by the winning strategy. And the winners who skirt the regulations will close shop and disappear at the first sign of trouble.

I disagree with the concept of entitlement-taking money from the winner and giving it to the loser. But the winner MUST abide by the same rules as the loser. If the ride sharing industry has the advantage of venture capital startup money and newer (less costly to maintain) infrastructure, then their benefits to drivers should be GREATER than what the taxi industry provides, not less. The 20 cent tax should go entirely to the health care and insurance of the drivers of the ride sharing industry's drivers. Not the welfare recipients we call 'politicians'. That HALF of this tax goes to people who are ALREADY living off of money made by people who actually work really bothers me.

I would really like to see silicon valley startups that offer a new and better forms of local government. I would like to see our political system get improved by disruption. I really believe politicians are vastly overpaid for the non-service they provide.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#398

Post by na85 »

deanCommie wrote: post #350
kofejnik wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the old model, taxi riders were/are suffering, and taxi drivers want to keep getting their monopoly rent. "Taxi drivers are suffering" actually means "they cannot fleece their customers like they used to". This is a zero sum game - taxi drivers take money from taxi riders, so any change will be met with opposition. The difference is, taxi drivers are better organized and have PR people to tell us about their "s…

Look, I hate cabs too. I hate having to tell the driver where to drop me off because they never use GPS. I hate feeling like a lowlife for wanting to pay by credit card because I never have cash. And I hate how expensive cabs are. But let's not forget that most taxi drivers are themselves far from well off. It is a working class gig, with a heavy representation from new immigrants. It's long hours, it's physically dr…

So we should prop up the robber barons running the shitty industry just to save the little guys who don't want to do something else?

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#400

Post by shaftoe »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #331
Trundle wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them don't want to go back to school or get technical training... What do we tell the taxi and truck drivers when Uber shows up with self-drivers, etc.? Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I know plenty of people on hn are all about the "making the world a better place" shtick and would work anyway/for the sake of it but for the vast majority of people work straight up means doing things you otherw…

> Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? You have it backwards. Humans have always had to suck it up because this is the default, natural state. But one would think in XXI century we could do better. That we can show some civilization, some compassion, instead of telling the unfortunate among us that they should suck it up. They're not our slaves to be forced into productive jobs, or resources to be used up a…

The world doesn't exist for anyone's personal comfort, nor should it. This is the argument of luddites, nobility, and the lazy.

The slave metaphor makes no sense: slaves have a master who cares for his investment. Free people have none and must care for and provide for themselves. To assume they cannot is degrading.

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