Live data from Hacker News

Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

reuters.com

261–270 of 539 posts

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#261
post #93

This is unbelievable. Never have I used a more corrupt and unfriendly taxi service as the one in Boston / Cambridge. And they are supposed to be subsidised?! I have 1) been driven round crazy detours to up my cost 2) been forced to drive a detour because the card machine was broken and they only accepted cash 3) been turned down because my destination wasn't far enough 4) been shouted at because I was watching the fr…

I used subways as bucycle as poor MIT student.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#262
post #2

This is a pretty surreal move: >The law says the money will help taxi businesses to adopt "new technologies and advanced service, safety and operational capabilities" and to support workforce development... [Larry Meister, manager of the Boston area's Independent Taxi Operator's Association] said the money could go toward improving a smartphone app his association has started using, or to other big needs. I'm not an…

I mostly agree with you, and I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but I just read a book ("Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank) that makes some interesting points about how liberals have shifted from representing working people to representing professionals, and to worshiping innovation. While free trade and disruptive technology is good for the professional class, it inherently increases inequality.…

Technology has been making existing professions obsolete for the last few thousand years. The first guy to get a horse and cart was putting dozens of manual laborers out of work. And yet somehow we have persevered, and vast swaths of our population have not become unemployed. Quite the opposite, as our unemployment rates continue to fall. When industries change, people do lose their jobs and that is difficult. One good solution would be to offer generous education and training assistance along with job placement so these workers can find a new job with new skills if necessary. If they don't want to go back to school, then why does society owe them anything? People lose their jobs all the time, for many reasons. Just because you drove a cab for 10 years doesn't entitle you to cab driver job safety for the rest of your life.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#263
post #248

There are two competing narratives about ride-hailing apps success: 1) They are profitable because they are finding loopholes in relevant legislation, or, 2) they are profitable because they are injecting competition and new ideas into a stagnating industry dominated by government-protected monopolies (or oligopolies). Your opinion of the law will likely depend on which narrative you find more persuasive.

> They are profitable We have no evidence of this, and this is scary to me, for various reasons. Uber/Lyft/et al are all about trying to gain a "lock" on the industry. If they succeed, they're going to hose me, badly. If they fail, they're going to leave a big crater behind from all the taxis they drove out of business. Not friendly.

Uber is sucking up a significant fraction of the worlds venture capital with some very creative deals. I suspect their strategy is to be a loss leader until theyve monopolized a market. No idea at all until they become public if they're making any profit. No judgement here. This strategy worked for Anazon.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#264
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I don't necessarily disagree with this sentiment, but this doesn't really address the question, which is about what happens to an industry when it's made redundant by technology. Cab drivers competing with self-driving cars can't "suck it up". "what if they don't want to" in regard to people working? Again, I feel you haven't read the spirit of this comment accurately. What ha…

I'm pretty sure the answer is to retrain and/or go into a different profession.

As a thought exercise, what will/would software developers do once 90% are made redundant by A.I. or something? Maybe "suck it up" and go back to school to become nurses?

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#265

Obviously the logic is mystifying, but the math behind this is baffling as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_States#... says there are 1825 cabs in Boston. Boston is 10% of Massachusetts' population, so let's say there are 18k cabs in the state. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-massachusetts-uber-idUSKCN... says 5 cents/ride-hailing app will go toward taxis, and Uber+Lyft do 2.5m rider per m…

> "the tax will produce…$1.5m/year"

If that's $83 per taxi-driver, then I agree: handing that $83 to the driver will not have a significant effect.

So rather than use the tax to directly subsidise taxi-drivers income, what if it's used to invest in taxi infrastructure? Or perhaps invest in things that level the playing field, providing equivalents to some of Lyft/Uber's tools?

Research or software into the most profitable time to work (to equalise with surge-pricing). A ride-hailing app that's open to all taxi companies. A training system that lowers the cost of entry into the market.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#266
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are pretty clearly profitable for both of those reasons. They are not at all mutually exclusive.

Are they profitable though?

$0.19 a ride in the USA (not including “interest, taxes, and equity-based compensation for employees").[1]

Although it's possible that after interest, taxes etc, that they're not even profitable in the US yet.

[1] https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uber-says-profitable-us-mu...

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#267
post #2

This is a pretty surreal move: >The law says the money will help taxi businesses to adopt "new technologies and advanced service, safety and operational capabilities" and to support workforce development... [Larry Meister, manager of the Boston area's Independent Taxi Operator's Association] said the money could go toward improving a smartphone app his association has started using, or to other big needs. I'm not an…

I mostly agree with you, and I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but I just read a book ("Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank) that makes some interesting points about how liberals have shifted from representing working people to representing professionals, and to worshiping innovation. While free trade and disruptive technology is good for the professional class, it inherently increases inequality.…

>What do we tell the taxi and truck drivers when Uber shows up with self-drivers, etc.?

Its will be almost like magic how the need for manpower at checkpoints in Syria, Yemen, Ukraine and beyond will profligate in direct proportion to the discontented, unemployed masses. Good thing the Evil Putin is asking for it!

Depopulation and employment through violence and war aside, though, its simply madness to think there is a solution to mass automation and the rise of AI as far as workers are concerned. We are going to have to totally rethink the way our society operates. Hopefully we will be wise enough to do this before we reach a crisis point but more likely we will be forced to address the issue after everything starts falling apart.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#268
post #2

This is a pretty surreal move: >The law says the money will help taxi businesses to adopt "new technologies and advanced service, safety and operational capabilities" and to support workforce development... [Larry Meister, manager of the Boston area's Independent Taxi Operator's Association] said the money could go toward improving a smartphone app his association has started using, or to other big needs. I'm not an…

I mostly agree with you, and I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but I just read a book ("Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank) that makes some interesting points about how liberals have shifted from representing working people to representing professionals, and to worshiping innovation. While free trade and disruptive technology is good for the professional class, it inherently increases inequality.…

I might check that book out.

One thing that strikes me is that you're right - these things are unequal. Uber develops an app but this has made it very difficult for anyone else to get their foot in the door. Given enough funding they can also just wait out any smaller competitors while still sucking the life out of their "non-employees".

They skirt the law and are not being held accountable for the misery they cause, there's no doubt about it.

Maybe what we need is an equaliser. Instead of having an Uber app there is a taxi app and it gives you the choice of which carrier you want and let's you compare prices for a trip.

That doesn't solve all problems but it does make it friendlier for new people to compete.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how much money you have, you can't buy a better coke. Income inequality is a misleading metric. I would argue that equality has vastly increased over the years. The rich don't really live much better lives than the middle class. Rich or poor we all have roofs over our heads, we all have access to relatively affordable methods of travel to get anywhere in the world in a day, we all use the same IPhones, watc…

It doesn't sound like you've ever been poor. Quality of life is about far more than the goods you can consume. It's also about job security, your chances of getting promoted, autonomy, fulfillment, and so on. If you know that you're [absolutely screwed][1] if you get fired, or get sick, or miss a paycheck, you don't really get to feel safe. [1]: www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2015/01/07/majority-of-americans-are-…

It doesn't sound like you have ever been to a poor country.

> It's also about job security, your chances of getting promoted, autonomy, fulfillment, and so on

For a large number of people in the world, they are wanting food, basic safety, and healthcare.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#270

Obviously the logic is mystifying, but the math behind this is baffling as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_States#... says there are 1825 cabs in Boston. Boston is 10% of Massachusetts' population, so let's say there are 18k cabs in the state. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-massachusetts-uber-idUSKCN... says 5 cents/ride-hailing app will go toward taxis, and Uber+Lyft do 2.5m rider per m…

Entirely logical in political terms. When under pressure to "Do Something!", cook up a solution which sounds big but has minimal real impact
Post reply on HN