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Dear American Website Owner

jan.rychter.com

81–90 of 149 posts

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#81
post #55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too! I've been arguing this for years, and I have yet for someone to reply with a good reason why it shouldn't be handled this way. Bad reasons given: - Safeguard against users who can't be relied on to format their own address properly. Fix 1: Don't worry about that. Fix 2: If you really want this, leave the rest of us an option to use a freeform address instead. - "Out webshop database has these fields." Fix: Ch…

The only reason I can think of is for internal statistics. For example the website owner can run a report on their customers broken down by a state or country. Nowadays with GeoIP, this is obsolete.

what if the destination/shipping is different to the billing, or where you buy it from? Using geoip here is mostly irrelevant and incredibly dangerous if you want to get a strong opinion of who your customers actually are, as opposed to where they are buying it from.

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, not all parts of England are in counties either, so don't feel like you're being singled out. York isn't in Yorkshire, for example. It is its own unitary authority. Even Amazon demands a county, so I put North Yorkshire. Close enough. The Royal Mail are happy for old curmudgeons and the like to use traditional counties in addresses, if they wish: http://www.abcounties.co.uk/bpa/bpacontents.htm All that Royal Ma…

York isn't in Yorkshire, for example. It is its own unitary authority. Even Amazon demands a county, so I put North Yorkshire. Close enough. It's not just "close enough" - it's entirely correct. York is in the "ceremonial" or "geographical" county of North Yorkshire. And addresses are geographical references, after all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_counties_of_England (though, technically, you should proba…

Correct. They messed around with the local authorities where I live last year - I was in Cheshire and I'm now in something called "Cheshire East". My neighbours are in "Cheshire West and Chester".

The address "52 High Street, Northwich, Cheshire West and Chester" would reflect the correct local authority name but is incredibly confusing - are we in Northwich or Chester? "Cheshire" is still correct.

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#83

all of which required me to provide a "State" name (I don't have one) As the author is in Poland, I'd argue that voivodeships are equivalent, in terms of being the highest level subdivision of the country. As a Brit, I'd tend to go with the county instead.

Seems like in Britain the closest equivalent to US states is countries (England, Wales, Scotland). But countries within countries is just too danged confusing.

Nope. Counties are.

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#84
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too! I've been arguing this for years, and I have yet for someone to reply with a good reason why it shouldn't be handled this way. Bad reasons given: - Safeguard against users who can't be relied on to format their own address properly. Fix 1: Don't worry about that. Fix 2: If you really want this, leave the rest of us an option to use a freeform address instead. - "Out webshop database has these fields." Fix: Ch…

There are several legitimate reasons for requiring users to enter in their address in separate fields. The two main ones are: 1. If you need to integrate with third party systems who require you to break up the address. In case you've never tried, parsing addresses is very hard -- if not impossible -- depending on how many formats you need to support. All it takes is one third party library that requires you to break…

Are there any promising open source libraries to fill this niche? Or startups offering it as a service API?

Honestly this seems like a problem that could be solved once and we all would benefit... And like any good problem, there is probably a profit to be made from it.

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#85
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not snitko, but I don't see the problem. Could you please explain your reasoning?

To be blunt, inputs you don't validate are inputs that will be entered wrong a significant portion of the time. Other concerns may override this for many fields, but unusable phone numbers are generally considered a problem.

If you force people to enter a phone number in a format they don't have, you will just end up with a bunch of 555-555-5555 numbers. Either way, you are going to get incorrect information.

It's much better to realise that your information will not always be 100% accurate no matter what you do.

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#86
post #56
post #27

I think this blog post REALLY overlooks the fact that interface localization isn't easy; even with a simple web forms. The interface for a search engine is a single input field with dynamic suggestions and people were in an uproar when Bing didn't give suggestions that were localized to the user's country or language. That's to say, if one of the biggest software companies in the world can't get it right, then what h…

If I wanted to write a blog post which elaborated on all possible internationalization issues, it would become a PhD dissertation and take a year to write. And then it wouldn't even touch on all the issues. You have to start somewhere — and let's face it, dealing with the two silly problems I mentioned would get us 80% of the way there.

I had to deal with International phone numbers before. Obviously, I had to deal with other issues, too, but the phone number was the important piece. Early on, before PayPal or other services caught on, we created a system to verify credit card users with their telephone. They would enter their telephone number and we'd call them. It was simple.

The problem was with international users. The system was simple: it would call the exact phone number the user entered. This meant we really wanted to get it right the first time. The other problem was that we had a single call center setup out in New York. This meant international callers needed to be called with special country codes and what not.

Now, I feel it's safe to say if you ask someone in Europe to give their phone number, they are going to give their phone number like they would to any of their friends. They aren't going to enter in the country code, and they aren't going to know to prefix it with a special code so that an automated system from the US can call them.

The thing is, it's not fair for me to simply provide them with the requirement "Give us your phone number so we can call you from New York, USA." It really isn't professional.

So, I spent some time (lots of time) reading up and learning about international phone numbers, and coding together a system that went a long way toward fixing this problem. A user could enter in their phone number, and if they didn't enter in a country code, we'd be intelligent about it and add it for them. How did we know where they lived? Two sources: CC Info and the IP address. We could be intelligent and assume the two should mostly match up. Obviously, if the CC address was the US, and the IP was somewhere off in Asia, red flags beyond just the errors for phone numbers would popup (but, even then, you had to be careful!).

I spent a lot of time fine tuning the system, working hard to make sure that a phone number would get through however the user entered it, and we could call. We had a really good success rate with numbers outside the North American norm. Enough that the cases that did fail I couldn't even figure out manually.

I was a bit saddened that it was all for nothing when we eventually removed the 'feature.' and the requirement for a phone number. I understand the reasons, but from a problem solving point of view, it was a lot of fun.

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#87
post #56
post #27

I think this blog post REALLY overlooks the fact that interface localization isn't easy; even with a simple web forms. The interface for a search engine is a single input field with dynamic suggestions and people were in an uproar when Bing didn't give suggestions that were localized to the user's country or language. That's to say, if one of the biggest software companies in the world can't get it right, then what h…

If I wanted to write a blog post which elaborated on all possible internationalization issues, it would become a PhD dissertation and take a year to write. And then it wouldn't even touch on all the issues. You have to start somewhere — and let's face it, dealing with the two silly problems I mentioned would get us 80% of the way there.

I gave it a shot of my own. I didn't do all the permutations, and surely left out big swaths that I've never even thought of, but it's a start...

http://hicks-wright.net/blog/stupid-american-website-owners/

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of having a state field at all? Isn't there a unique mapping between zip code and state? No. Zip codes may cross state lines.

Zip codes may cross state lines. Example, please?

"Fort Campbell (ZIP code 42223), primarily in Kentucky, also has some roads in Tennessee."

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_code#By_geography

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#89
post #3

I wish author was a little more constructive here. What phone number pattern would he recommend we use?

Probably the best approach is not using any pattern at all. The less you force your users into something that will not work most of the times, the best. I always struggle to input information even in forms designed specifically for my country. Just let people enter numbers with all the spaces and the dashes the wish. After all, if a human will ever need a phone number, he will be able to read it in any form. If these…

The best approach is to fix it for the person behind the scenes. You can keep the original input (you should), but you should also reformat the phone number in an acceptable format for your uses. This does take a lot of work, however. It's not reasonable to ask someone to add their country code to their phone number. However, you do have the ability to add it yourself. And you should. It won't always be a human that needs the phone number.

Re: Dear American Website Owner

#90
I thought we already knew this whole web2.0 thingie is more than rounded corners. It's the "web services and integration" that's interesting.

There is more than one service offering a geocoding API. Use any of them to do the hard work for you.

Your form should have one single field, named "Address". Let the user type whatever s/he wants. Get this input and pass it along to Google Maps, or Yahoo Maps, or WhateverMaps. Your geocoding service will return things in a way that is obviously more parseable.

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