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Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

defectivebydesign.org

171–180 of 209 posts

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#171

On their website is a banner: "Cancel netflix!". I click on it, and I'm told I should cancel netflix because they put DRM on their HTML5 delivery of movies. Now look, Im a self-professed pirate. I say screw most DRM and I dont recognize IP law. However, I totally disagree that I should "cancel netflix". What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sit…

>What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sites ?

Is that not already the current situation?

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly I don't care for your thinking that you're going to explain anything to me, because it's obvious that my attempts to explain artistic creator perspectives are follies. Well, if you don't actually care to understand, why pretend so in the first place? Also, I don't really see you explaining much so far? Though I suspect there wouldn't even be all that much disagreement on my part with the problems that you…

None? None. So we have no common ground. I have some from your platform, and you have none from mine. To accuse me of not willing to engage or understand is, to me, hypocritical. I guess we just have a failure to communicate. We'll just have to wait and see and maybe re-visit these threads after this case is settled. I've done more than my fair share of explication and noticed some kind of gap that neither you nor I…

> None? None. So we have no common ground.

Is that how you conduct discussions with people from outside your field(s)? You might be more successful if you are willing to find common ground outside your immediate field of expertise. Also, I told you I was willing to reconsider if you were to show how my personal experience in that area is relevant to the discussion.

> I've done more than my fair share of explication

No, actually, you haven't. I don't know whether you maybe have elsewhere in this thread, but in your responses to me you did indeed not explain your position particularly much. You have to some degree in your medium article, and I was willing to build on that.

> and noticed some kind of gap that neither you nor I are willing to bridge for whatever reasons.

Really, it seems to me that it's only you who isn't willing to entertain just for the sake of understanding the arguments of the other side the idea that maybe they indeed have thought this all through, that they are aware of your arguments, and that they have reasons to reject them after all.

I would be more than happy to be shown that DRM and the criminalization of DRM bypassing is indeed not a big problem, as that could solve a lot of problems with ensuring fair compensation for creative works, which is a big problem that the digitalization of the world has brought. Unfortunately, I can't really recognize any effort on your part to bring forward any arguments to that effect. Instead, it seems to me that you are utterly unwilling to reconsider your own position, and as a result don't even understand what you are arguing against, which only compounds the ineffectiveness of your arguments.

If you want to make yourself understood, you have to be willing to seriously question your own position, and you have to assume that the other party is not trying to sabotage the conversation if there is any chance to do so. And you have to try and avoid sabotaging it at all cost yourself.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#173
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix shows are all on torrent sites anyway. I'm not sure they would actually lose anything if they dropped the DRM.

From my perspective, Netflix and other legal streaming services have dealt quite a blow to the torrent scene. I'm sure there are private trackers that are alive and well, but the scene in total seems diminished even from a few years ago. Personally I prefer to do my 'piracy' the old-fashioned way: at my local public library. Better selection than all but the most elite torrent sites...

Is it actually diminished, or just more out of the public eye?

I don't go trawling around for pirated content, but I've stopped hearing much in the news about big "busts" of things like Suprnova every other week - I think the first one I heard about in months, if not years, was all the noise around KickAssTorrents being shut down.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#174

So, I just kinda-sorta stumbled upon this thought and would like your honest opinions regarding a proposition: Remove Section 1201 (DRM Circumvention) and Section 512 (Safe Harbor) at the same time. What happens next?

An amazing cacophany of copyright lawsuits flood out to everyone covered by Safe Harbor at once - e.g. ISPs, CDNs, anyone who provides any sort of storage or bandwidth to another person at all...

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#175
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, for sure- it's not like it's Netflix that cares, its the contracts they have with content owners. I guess they could turn off DRM for the show they produce but that sounds like a technical hassle for no gain.

Some gain. Some attempt could be made to then compare piracy rates of netflix's non-drm vs drm content. They'd be showing good will to those who side with "Cancel Netflix"

Netflix has moved into the content creator sphere as a direct rebuttal to the, well, extortion that content holders have hung over their heads.

I was listening to a local talk radio station (1310 The Ticket) which does an 'Entertainment News' segment and they mentioned that the chief of FX went on record lamenting that Netflix might become a go-to for content.

One of the situations they mentioned was the upcoming Playboy series done in partnership with Hugh Heffner. The discussion was about how that series might have landed on FX or AMC a few years ago - now? Now it's a proprietary Netflix show.

I'm pivoting more toward screenwriting for 2017 and saw some chatter that Netflix doesn't particularly take "pitches" from the traditional Hollywood / content system. They reach out. According to the source, a meeting with Netflix is one of the hardest to "get" because of this approach.

They're trying to turn the tables and it seems to be paying dividends - at least from a customer engagement standpoint. Offering exclusive content is a whole different conversation (re: Drake, Chance the Rapper & Apple Music) but their actions are becoming recognized. I can definitely respect the move on general principle.

The question to be asked in turn is rooted in why would Netflix play by different rules than they had been subjected to re: DRM when the established system has trained a majority of customers to accept it.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Configure your own using one of the existing tools; if you use Owncloud or Nextcloud you could use my OPDS Catalog app… Okay, so this is a whole new world for me. Thank you! OPDS appears to be for electronic publications what RSS is to blogs and podcasts. There are feeds, there's content management software that generates them (like "OPDS catalog"), and there are reader-style apps to consume them and view the syndi…

OPDS for dummies? There is the Mobileread wiki ( http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/OPDS ) which gives some pointers to catalogs and software, but it doesn't really explain all that much. What OPDS enables you to do is gain access to a collection from any OPDS client device. To test it you can just install an OPDS-compatible reader on a phone or tablet or some such device and point it at an OPDS catalog. If you install…

This is very helpful, thanks again!

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#177

So, I just kinda-sorta stumbled upon this thought and would like your honest opinions regarding a proposition: Remove Section 1201 (DRM Circumvention) and Section 512 (Safe Harbor) at the same time. What happens next?

An amazing cacophany of copyright lawsuits flood out to everyone covered by Safe Harbor at once - e.g. ISPs, CDNs, anyone who provides any sort of storage or bandwidth to another person at all...

Thanks for giving your thoughts, I think they are constructive.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the DRM-less Netflix can only work if they would sell you the movies; they don't; they rent them. You did not pay $25-30 per item you watched after which you can say you own it; you paid a fraction. So I agree with you; they make it easy for me to watch legal content, something I have been shouting for for years. I would not care about DRM if I could watch everything like I can on Netflix; unless I buy it (on…

Goodness gracious, I cannot think of a single movie I would like to "own". Is it just me? Am I the only one who doesn't like to watch the same 90m video over and over ? Sure I dont represent every consumer, but I think this is why netflix is successful: not overselling the customer. You get to use the content and put it back. I know how Titanic ends, I dont need to see it over and over again. I get no utility from th…

I cannot think of that either. That is basically why I stopped caring about it, for good or for bad. I was a soapbox standing, card carrying anti DRM but it is not an annoyance anymore so I backed off. I cannot stand DRM or whatever it is called on chips for OSs though...

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#179
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the DRM-less Netflix can only work if they would sell you the movies; they don't; they rent them. You did not pay $25-30 per item you watched after which you can say you own it; you paid a fraction. So I agree with you; they make it easy for me to watch legal content, something I have been shouting for for years. I would not care about DRM if I could watch everything like I can on Netflix; unless I buy it (on…

There were times when I could not watch content in Linux because the DRM decoder didn't work in Linux, so even if I paid, I couldn't get the content I paid for. That's another story, but with HTML5 that's all fixed. How? Do you really watch video in the browser on your computer where you can run Google-provided builds of Chrome? Isn't that pretty annoying? What do you do if you have some random small ARM or Atom box…

I guess I am old and did not have that issue yet. I have fought computing for so long by using Linux as my primary OS since the mid 90s, I guess sometimes I stop thinking when something just works. I am not Stallman and I realize even there that I am limiting myself but when it just works and the damage is less than what is possible in my mind I will accept it. I cannot see a solution that works currently and Netflix etc do provide something that works for a price which you do not have to think about and you do not have risk of the feds running in. Maybe there is something here as a middle ground. Annoying as it is when you think about it, it seems to improve... You are right and yes when I think about it it is annoying as hell, but a) netflix simply cannot do without or they would have no content (my question about ownership remains) b) we have no good rapport for just opening up all. I understand we all are doing that anyway but not for most and so it is a hard sell.

Edit: as someone who grew up in the 80s, Linux is the best thing that happened to computing outside the internet and Linux was a large part of that as well. It was hell before with MS, Sun, HP, SGI, Digital, etc and their flavours of hell. They did a lot of good but the closed off nature was terrible.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix shows are all on torrent sites anyway. I'm not sure they would actually lose anything if they dropped the DRM.

Can the average grandma use "torrent sites" (and figure out how to show the content on a TV) ? Can the average grandma use netflix ?

What a strange reply. You're the one who brought up "torrent sites" in the first place.
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