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Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

defectivebydesign.org

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Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#161

Post by digler999 »

tluyben2 wrote: post #154
digler999 wrote: post #123

On their website is a banner: "Cancel netflix!". I click on it, and I'm told I should cancel netflix because they put DRM on their HTML5 delivery of movies. Now look, Im a self-professed pirate. I say screw most DRM and I dont recognize IP law. However, I totally disagree that I should "cancel netflix". What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sit…

I think the DRM-less Netflix can only work if they would sell you the movies; they don't; they rent them. You did not pay $25-30 per item you watched after which you can say you own it; you paid a fraction. So I agree with you; they make it easy for me to watch legal content, something I have been shouting for for years. I would not care about DRM if I could watch everything like I can on Netflix; unless I buy it (on…

Goodness gracious, I cannot think of a single movie I would like to "own". Is it just me? Am I the only one who doesn't like to watch the same 90m video over and over ?

Sure I dont represent every consumer, but I think this is why netflix is successful: not overselling the customer. You get to use the content and put it back. I know how Titanic ends, I dont need to see it over and over again. I get no utility from that. Some flicks might have fanatics that want to "own" it (whatever that means), but most dont.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#162

Post by 6stringmerc »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #151
6stringmerc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first computing experience was with the Mac 512k at age 5. I grew up in an Apple household and then discovered how behind I was with not knowing DOS. We became a Windows household in the age of Dell vs. Gateway PCs. I learned how to work on machines, replace hardware, work through software conflicts, and got a job at 16 working in a small office making broken things into Frakenstein boxes. Taught myself HTML from…

> Honestly I don't care for your thinking that you're going to explain anything to me, because it's obvious that my attempts to explain artistic creator perspectives are follies. Well, if you don't actually care to understand, why pretend so in the first place? Also, I don't really see you explaining much so far? Though I suspect there wouldn't even be all that much disagreement on my part with the problems that you…

None? None. So we have no common ground. I have some from your platform, and you have none from mine. To accuse me of not willing to engage or understand is, to me, hypocritical.

I guess we just have a failure to communicate. We'll just have to wait and see and maybe re-visit these threads after this case is settled. I've done more than my fair share of explication and noticed some kind of gap that neither you nor I are willing to bridge for whatever reasons. Good day to you Madam or Sir.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#163

Post by digler999 »

Endy wrote: post #137
digler999 wrote: post #123

On their website is a banner: "Cancel netflix!". I click on it, and I'm told I should cancel netflix because they put DRM on their HTML5 delivery of movies. Now look, Im a self-professed pirate. I say screw most DRM and I dont recognize IP law. However, I totally disagree that I should "cancel netflix". What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sit…

They are not the "good guy" - they're merely among the lesser of a few evils. If they were the "good guy", they would deliver content 100% DRM-free and actively support the public domain. For me, "Cancel Netflix!" is not merely a call to remove myself from their service, but rather a call to remove a DRM-friendly platform from the face of the Web. Because as it stands, every other DRM jail can point to Netflix and sa…

> they would deliver content 100% DRM-free

Then most of their content would be 60s era public domain garbage. No movie studio would license their content if any high-school freshman with libpcap installed could copy their whole catalog!

I'm NOT pro-DRM, all DRM does is get broken and it allows fraudulent business practices (such as the top comment Kindle owner post). But it's "the lesser of a few evils", to use your own words. No "decent" movies would be available if the studios knew the distributor was taking no steps to even try to keep it from being illegally copied.

Look, I never in a hundred years imagined I'd be on HN defending DRM, when I have a 24/7 VPN to Croatia for all my pirating needs. But truth is it's more effort to copy files from the NAS to the DLNA server than it is to use Netflix. (To be 100% honest, I dont even like watching TV and I just do it for my roomate).

But I digress, if they made no efforts whatsoever to show they do not condone piracy, what studio in their right mind would agree to license their content ? Ok, so they should do all original stuff you say ? Great, your $14/month online streaming service has 12 titles! whoo hoo ! Dont all try to sign-up at once!

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#164

Post by digler999 »

freshhawk wrote: post #139
digler999 wrote: post #123

On their website is a banner: "Cancel netflix!". I click on it, and I'm told I should cancel netflix because they put DRM on their HTML5 delivery of movies. Now look, Im a self-professed pirate. I say screw most DRM and I dont recognize IP law. However, I totally disagree that I should "cancel netflix". What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sit…

"Netflix is the good guy, they are pioneers in electronic content delivery." The basis for this is that Netflix was a major player in the success of the push for Encrypted Media Extensions in HTML5. The possibilities for abuse here are just unreal. Pissing off their competitors by not being incompetent when it comes to technology isn't enough to make me call them "good guys" even if some of their stuff I happen to li…

> The possibilities for abuse here are just unreal.

Serious question/request: please elaborate. I pay $14/month so I can watch 4K content on my TV and share an acct with my dad so he can watch 3 shows a week. My room mate uses it more than I do.

I pay the money with the expectation that I can watch video. What about DRM (in this particular case, I'm not saying I support ALL DRM) could be "abused" and prevent me from watching video ? The only thing that would slightly piss me off is if it only worked on Win/Mac platforms. But personally I dont even watch with a computer so this wouldnt affect me. Just as principle, thats the only potential for abuse I could foresee.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#165

Post by digler999 »

Silhouette wrote: post #152
Endy wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not the "good guy" - they're merely among the lesser of a few evils. If they were the "good guy", they would deliver content 100% DRM-free and actively support the public domain. For me, "Cancel Netflix!" is not merely a call to remove myself from their service, but rather a call to remove a DRM-friendly platform from the face of the Web. Because as it stands, every other DRM jail can point to Netflix and sa…

If they were the "good guy", they would deliver content 100% DRM-free and actively support the public domain. And pay the hundreds or thousands of people involved in making a major movie or demanding TV show for months or years of their time with what, sunshine and rainbows? It would be lovely if we could all just contribute our skills and talents for the general improvement of humanity, but the thing about professio…

So they should take investor's money and say "thanks guys, we're going to use your dollars to pay for new, cool shows and release them for free to the public domain, cause screw DRM! that's, why!"

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#166

Post by digler999 »

roywiggins wrote: post #133
digler999 wrote: post #123

On their website is a banner: "Cancel netflix!". I click on it, and I'm told I should cancel netflix because they put DRM on their HTML5 delivery of movies. Now look, Im a self-professed pirate. I say screw most DRM and I dont recognize IP law. However, I totally disagree that I should "cancel netflix". What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sit…

Netflix shows are all on torrent sites anyway. I'm not sure they would actually lose anything if they dropped the DRM.

Can the average grandma use "torrent sites" (and figure out how to show the content on a TV) ? Can the average grandma use netflix ?

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#167

Post by digler999 »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #149
digler999 wrote: post #123

On their website is a banner: "Cancel netflix!". I click on it, and I'm told I should cancel netflix because they put DRM on their HTML5 delivery of movies. Now look, Im a self-professed pirate. I say screw most DRM and I dont recognize IP law. However, I totally disagree that I should "cancel netflix". What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sit…

> Netflix is the good guy, they are pioneers in electronic content delivery. They are fighting to break the monopoly of the movie industry while having to work with them to get content. And they are producing their own content. Then why don't they release their own content without DRM? It's because they favor DRM just as much as "the bad guys."

Because they can deliver the content that users pay for though one platform. no need to deploy a major software update, full regression test, just for some political reason.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#168

Post by anbende »

skolos wrote: post #53
throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

Comment on "Kindle breaks easily". I have different experience. About 6 years ago I got Kindle for my birthday. Happily used it for half a year and then misplaced and couldn't find it for another half a year. Then I found it - it fell in a gap in my outside furniture and was lying outside exposed to elements for all this time. To bring it back to life all I needed is to charge it - used it for more than 5 years after…

Same here. I got a paperwhite for Christmas 4-5 years ago. No problems. Still works well. And I use it every day.

The battery doesn't last as long as it used to, but it's still good for days.

I do keep the backlight as low as possible...

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#169

Post by reachtarunhere »

riskable wrote: post #65
madaxe_again wrote: post #2

It appears the EFF intend to fight section 1201 (thou shalt not circumvent) on first amendment free speech arguments, and on the idea that punishment for circumvention creates a chilling effect. I don't think a court will buy it. They'll argue that 1201 protects the free speech of content creators, and that it works as intended - and they will cite the decss appeal, which was won by the media giants on the same argum…

I think part of the argument the EFF will make is that section 1201 is inherently in conflict with itself in regards to fair use (an argument which was explicitly not ruled upon in the DeCSS court case) and free speech (to a lesser extent). On the one hand the DMCA states that no one may make available any tool that circumvents a control that protects a copyrighted work while on the other hand it states (c 1): Nothin…

I am getting a customized T-Shirt with that message.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#170

Post by slrz »

tluyben2 wrote: post #154
digler999 wrote: post #123

On their website is a banner: "Cancel netflix!". I click on it, and I'm told I should cancel netflix because they put DRM on their HTML5 delivery of movies. Now look, Im a self-professed pirate. I say screw most DRM and I dont recognize IP law. However, I totally disagree that I should "cancel netflix". What are they supposed to do ? Deliver all their movies DRM-free and see them immediately get copied to torrent sit…

I think the DRM-less Netflix can only work if they would sell you the movies; they don't; they rent them. You did not pay $25-30 per item you watched after which you can say you own it; you paid a fraction. So I agree with you; they make it easy for me to watch legal content, something I have been shouting for for years. I would not care about DRM if I could watch everything like I can on Netflix; unless I buy it (on…

There were times when I could not watch content in Linux because the DRM decoder didn't work in Linux, so even if I paid, I couldn't get the content I paid for. That's another story, but with HTML5 that's all fixed.

How? Do you really watch video in the browser on your computer where you can run Google-provided builds of Chrome? Isn't that pretty annoying?

What do you do if you have some random small ARM or Atom box running Linux with an UI that's convenient to use on the big TV screen it's connected to and using a remote control? I don't see an obvious way to watch DRM-protected video there. HTML5/EME doesn't help a bit as you still need a (binary-only) content decryption module that you can't get for your platform.

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