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Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

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Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#31

Post by waterphone »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #19
kbenson wrote: post #9

So, I know disrupting ecologies can have profound consequences that aren't obvious ahead of time, but let's do a thought experiment. Let's assume we have a 100% effective way to kill all mosquitoes within 18-24 months. What are the known disruptions and consequences of this? Do we have ways to combat problems due to that? What are the probable/theoretical distuptions and consequences? Do we have have to combat these?…

Nature has a good article and eliminating misquotes has little ecological impact and obviously large positive impact for humans . http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html

Unintended consequences still manage to arise most of the time when people think they can play god and mess with nature in that way. Until relatively recently, people didn't even know that hummingbirds relied heavily on eating small insects like mosquitos rather than just drinking nectar. Undoubtedly there are many things like that which we simply aren't aware of.

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#32

Post by kbenson »

Kenji wrote: post #30
kbenson wrote: post #9

So, I know disrupting ecologies can have profound consequences that aren't obvious ahead of time, but let's do a thought experiment. Let's assume we have a 100% effective way to kill all mosquitoes within 18-24 months. What are the known disruptions and consequences of this? Do we have ways to combat problems due to that? What are the probable/theoretical distuptions and consequences? Do we have have to combat these?…

Yeah, we humans are so good at making animals extinct. I can't believe we haven't done that with human-biting mosquitoes (or other nasties) a long time ago. It is time to do that; nature will find a way without the buggers.

> Yeah, we humans are so good at making animals extinct.

Well, largely by crowding them out of food or space. While species we compete with get the short end of the stick, those that we have parasitical or symbiotic relationships with have quite a different experience.

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#33

Post by CamperBob2 »

waterphone wrote: post #31
zitterbewegung wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature has a good article and eliminating misquotes has little ecological impact and obviously large positive impact for humans . http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html

Unintended consequences still manage to arise most of the time when people think they can play god and mess with nature in that way. Until relatively recently, people didn't even know that hummingbirds relied heavily on eating small insects like mosquitos rather than just drinking nectar. Undoubtedly there are many things like that which we simply aren't aware of.

Everything in engineering is a compromise, and ecological engineering is no different. We still do it anyway. We get to do it because we're humans, and the other species aren't.

It is not reasonable to demand assurances of complete safety, or freedom from all possible adverse consequences, before taking action in defense of our own species.

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#34

Post by enraged_camel »

waterphone wrote: post #31
zitterbewegung wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature has a good article and eliminating misquotes has little ecological impact and obviously large positive impact for humans . http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html

Unintended consequences still manage to arise most of the time when people think they can play god and mess with nature in that way. Until relatively recently, people didn't even know that hummingbirds relied heavily on eating small insects like mosquitos rather than just drinking nectar. Undoubtedly there are many things like that which we simply aren't aware of.

I've never understood this argument. We have been "playing god" since we settled down 10,000 years ago and started practicing agriculture. The ways in which we selectively cultivate/breed plants/animals have do doubt caused major changes in ecosystems. Yet, if we had not done those things, we probably would not be here today.

Furthermore, where do you draw the line? We are very close to eradicating the polio virus. Do we know ALL the consequences of doing so? No. Does that mean we should stop? No. We have, at some point, decided that it causes an immense amount of human suffering and decided to eradicate it. Same with certain species of mosquitoes.

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#35

Post by rch »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #33
waterphone wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unintended consequences still manage to arise most of the time when people think they can play god and mess with nature in that way. Until relatively recently, people didn't even know that hummingbirds relied heavily on eating small insects like mosquitos rather than just drinking nectar. Undoubtedly there are many things like that which we simply aren't aware of.

Everything in engineering is a compromise, and ecological engineering is no different. We still do it anyway. We get to do it because we're humans, and the other species aren't. It is not reasonable to demand assurances of complete safety, or freedom from all possible adverse consequences, before taking action in defense of our own species.

> We get to do it because we're humans, and the other species aren't.

Beavers get to do a little ecological engineering now and again.

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#36

Post by dbg31415 »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #19
kbenson wrote: post #9

So, I know disrupting ecologies can have profound consequences that aren't obvious ahead of time, but let's do a thought experiment. Let's assume we have a 100% effective way to kill all mosquitoes within 18-24 months. What are the known disruptions and consequences of this? Do we have ways to combat problems due to that? What are the probable/theoretical distuptions and consequences? Do we have have to combat these?…

Nature has a good article and eliminating misquotes has little ecological impact and obviously large positive impact for humans . http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html

OK, so how do we do this? Is there a candidate I have to vote for, or a fund I have to finance? Let's kill all the mosquitoes already.

> Given the fact that species transmits so many dangerous pathogens it’s very unfortunate for humans that they are such great survivors, and have been rapidly expanding their range during the last couple of decades... Aedes albopictus is now considered to be one of the 100 world’s worst invasive species...

http://planetsave.com/2013/07/01/tiger-mosquito-asian-tiger-...

> The Asian tiger mosquito is about 2 to 10 mm length with a striking white and black pattern

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aedes_albopictus

Oh, and also the gallinippers are worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9nxljtI6I

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#37

Post by Harelin »

kbenson wrote: post #9

So, I know disrupting ecologies can have profound consequences that aren't obvious ahead of time, but let's do a thought experiment. Let's assume we have a 100% effective way to kill all mosquitoes within 18-24 months. What are the known disruptions and consequences of this? Do we have ways to combat problems due to that? What are the probable/theoretical distuptions and consequences? Do we have have to combat these?…

Is it possible that mosquitoes spread beneficial pathogens among humans, in addition to the deadly pathogens they are known for? The concept of overprotective parents preventing their children from building their immune system comes to mind.

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#38

Post by steve19 »

maxerickson wrote: post #20
nickysielicki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be that as it may, global panic relating to HIV/AIDS, Ebola, Mad Cow Disease, Bird Flu, etc. was not primarily based in scientific reason. Consider Princess Diana shaking hands with an AIDS patient in 1991 and how big of a deal that was. I'll admit that I don't know much about Zika outside of the few articles I've read. And I'll also admit that I'm pretty afraid from what I've read. But what I find most interesting a…

It's winter in Brazil. There aren't a lot of mosquitoes right now. A US athlete acted like a ponce over Zika. The crowds chanted Zika to make fun of her. When I say ponce I'm talking about posting the pictures here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/bradesposito/heres-why-hope-solos-b... I'm not talking about thinking it over carefully.

Do you know what "ponce" means? It means an effeminate man.

So a woman who might be wanting to start a family has the audacity to bring insect repellent with her to Brazil, and she deserves to be harassed by thousands of soccer fans (and mocked by a HN user)?

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#39

Post by seanwilson »

enraged_camel wrote: post #34
waterphone wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unintended consequences still manage to arise most of the time when people think they can play god and mess with nature in that way. Until relatively recently, people didn't even know that hummingbirds relied heavily on eating small insects like mosquitos rather than just drinking nectar. Undoubtedly there are many things like that which we simply aren't aware of.

I've never understood this argument. We have been "playing god" since we settled down 10,000 years ago and started practicing agriculture. The ways in which we selectively cultivate/breed plants/animals have do doubt caused major changes in ecosystems. Yet, if we had not done those things, we probably would not be here today. Furthermore, where do you draw the line? We are very close to eradicating the polio virus. D…

> Furthermore, where do you draw the line? We are very close to eradicating the polio virus. Do we know ALL the consequences of doing so? No. Does that mean we should stop? No. We have, at some point, decided that it causes an immense amount of human suffering and decided to eradicate it. Same with certain species of mosquitoes.

It reminds me of the Trolley Problem with the exception that you can't be completely sure what the lever does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

Basically, the easy option is to do nothing, avoid responsibility and potentially have the worst outcome happen that you could have prevented.

Re: Zika Infection May Affect Adult Brain Cells

#40

Post by maxerickson »

steve19 wrote: post #38
maxerickson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's winter in Brazil. There aren't a lot of mosquitoes right now. A US athlete acted like a ponce over Zika. The crowds chanted Zika to make fun of her. When I say ponce I'm talking about posting the pictures here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/bradesposito/heres-why-hope-solos-b... I'm not talking about thinking it over carefully.

Do you know what "ponce" means? It means an effeminate man. So a woman who might be wanting to start a family has the audacity to bring insect repellent with her to Brazil, and she deserves to be harassed by thousands of soccer fans (and mocked by a HN user)?

It may be a poor word choice. I meant it to mean "ridiculous person".

I would say that "bring insect repellent...to Brazil" is a very friendly way of characterizing the photos in my link.

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