Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘Climate change is water change’

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#21

Post by douche »

sehr wrote: post #17

For all those claiming the solution is as easy as "just moving out of the desert", people aren't the only major issue when it comes to the Colorado River's water. So unless you're willing to forego vegetables every single winter, those farms in the southwestern desert (as backwards as it may seem) are there to stay until they're too expensive to maintain.

There's whole sections of the country that were former agricultural bastions that have gone to seed. We don't need the central valley that badly - although you may not be getting fresh baby spinach in January, there will still be vegetables, and nobody is going to starve.

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#22

Post by the8472 »

sehr wrote: post #17

For all those claiming the solution is as easy as "just moving out of the desert", people aren't the only major issue when it comes to the Colorado River's water. So unless you're willing to forego vegetables every single winter, those farms in the southwestern desert (as backwards as it may seem) are there to stay until they're too expensive to maintain.

Why is such a large fraction of vegetables grown in a desert in the first place?

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#23

Post by dragonwriter »

the8472 wrote: post #22
sehr wrote: post #17

For all those claiming the solution is as easy as "just moving out of the desert", people aren't the only major issue when it comes to the Colorado River's water. So unless you're willing to forego vegetables every single winter, those farms in the southwestern desert (as backwards as it may seem) are there to stay until they're too expensive to maintain.

Why is such a large fraction of vegetables grown in a desert in the first place?

> Why is such a large fraction of vegetables grown in a desert in the first place?

Because the soil and climate (but for, you know, the lack of rainfall) is otherwise fairly optimal for it, and it is easier to move water to the desert than soil and desirable aspects of climate to the not-desert.

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#24

Post by shoo »

jimmcslim wrote: post #10

#phoenixdownthetubes

as the parent comment is possibly hinting at, a relevant novel exploring this is "The Water Knife" by Paolo Bacigalupi

it's a bit of an unpleasant read in parts, but it is exploring a future where there isn't enough water for everyone, and many people are only left with bad options, or never really had any.

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#25

Post by bcheung »

thanksforcoming wrote: post #20
jorblumesea wrote: post #2

I think as climate change really starts getting going the American Southwest including California will need to start desalination on a massive scale or risk mass emigration. The current situation is sketchy at best, give it 20 years and most of that area will be bone dry.

Water in Southern California is a complex issue that isn't given its proper due - and desalination plants aren't the cure-all that people assume. Desalination plants: are expensive to build; are more energetically expensive than most alternatives, which means they are also more expensive to run (its tough to take salt out of water); inefficient - compared to alternatives, more water must be processed to create the sa…

Is it possible to do desalination entirely without electricity?

Ram pumps can pump water to a higher location that the water source without any added energy. The kinetic energy of the moving water is all that is needed. The waves supply the kinetic energy.

Once water is pumped into a water tower, then have a bunch of mirrors point at the tower to heat it up. Steam evaporates and flows down to a lower location.

Seems like once it is set up it would be completely stand alone without any electricity being needed. Not sure what kind of output it could generate or how efficient it is, but it wouldn't require any man-made energy.

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#26

Post by sehr »

douche wrote: post #21
sehr wrote: post #17

For all those claiming the solution is as easy as "just moving out of the desert", people aren't the only major issue when it comes to the Colorado River's water. So unless you're willing to forego vegetables every single winter, those farms in the southwestern desert (as backwards as it may seem) are there to stay until they're too expensive to maintain.

There's whole sections of the country that were former agricultural bastions that have gone to seed. We don't need the central valley that badly - although you may not be getting fresh baby spinach in January, there will still be vegetables, and nobody is going to starve.

I am specifically not talking about the Central Valley. The Central Valley is not a desert, nor is it irrigated using water from the Colorado river (AFAIK).

Please research this topic before responding again.

Edit: spinach? I'm also talking potatoes, carrots, lettuce, onions, broccoli and cauliflower. I wish we were only at risk of losing spinach.

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#27

Post by jimmcslim »

shoo wrote: post #24
jimmcslim wrote: post #10

#phoenixdownthetubes

as the parent comment is possibly hinting at, a relevant novel exploring this is "The Water Knife" by Paolo Bacigalupi it's a bit of an unpleasant read in parts, but it is exploring a future where there isn't enough water for everyone, and many people are only left with bad options, or never really had any.

Thanks - was wondering if it was a bit obtuse. Just finished reading "The Water Knife" and yes I agree it is a bit unpleasant at times, but I find Bacigalupi's world-building quite compelling.

I might read 'Cadillac Desert' that is referenced by and inspired "The Water Knife".

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#28

Post by ChuckMcM »

People talk about this being "unprecedented" however there is ample evidence that the Pueblo people lived in the Colorado River watershed, and then moved on after an extended drought. That was a few thousand years ago, and frankly I don't see the residents of Las Vegas moving on, but I can imagine that changes that happen with or without anthropogenic contribution have been affecting communities in the area. Where is the story advocating a 'keystone pipeline' type effort to carry excess water from the inland river systems over to the west?

My point is we're going to continue to suffer from too much and too little water across the country. Why not build the equivalent of the Interstate highway system to give us the power to redistribute water to where ever it is needed and route it around vulnerable cities and communities when there is too much?

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#29

Post by sehr »

dragonwriter wrote: post #23
the8472 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is such a large fraction of vegetables grown in a desert in the first place?

> Why is such a large fraction of vegetables grown in a desert in the first place? Because the soil and climate (but for, you know, the lack of rainfall) is otherwise fairly optimal for it, and it is easier to move water to the desert than soil and desirable aspects of climate to the not-desert.

Correct. The soil is incredibly fertile, and at least around the Yuma/imperial valley area, it's literally the sunniest place on earth.

Re: ‘Climate change is water change’

#30

Post by cmdrfred »

codecamper wrote: post #18

Meanwhile solar panel manufacturers are suffering from oversupply, meaning not enough purchasing. This despite the fact that prices are now down to 60 cents a watt or less. Solar will never be cheaper than coal because coal is a rock. it'll always be cheaper to go dig coal than to make something else. Politicians need to deal with this or we are all doomed.

>Solar will never be cheaper than coal

It already is actually.

http://www.sciencealert.com/india-says-the-cost-of-solar-pow...

Post reply on HN