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Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

defectivebydesign.org

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Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#61

Post by icebraining »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #27
6stringmerc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very encouraging to read and I'm in complete agreement. I've posted a link to my essay in this thread because I share the media/tech slugfest perspective. Personally I think the starting point to get out of this mess is an overhaul first and foremost of Copyright terms. They're so far out of whack it genuinely stifles innovation and expression and progress...etc. Now, more than ever, time moves quickly - what…

The problem is the greed and narcissism on both sides. The content corps make a ton of money by exploiting creative people. They used to be able to justify this by claiming that they sponsored and nurtured talent. That was always a stretch, even when 15% of a CD sale - maximum - went to the original creator, and the rest to the rest of the industry. But advances did happen, and they were the only way creatives could…

How many pirates have made any effort to sponsor creators, or pay creators directly for original content?

Studies in Norway, the UK, Australia and the US have shown that pirates actually spend more than the general population on digital products like music and films. The idea that you're either a Buyer or a Pirate is not, and has never been true.

The fact is that a lot of people simply can't afford to buy all the content they enjoy, and while some may find that morally repugnant, cracking down on that piracy won't bring a cent more to authors.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#62

Post by zardo »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #56
Yetanfou wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't rely on any 'official' solution to maintain your digital library as those are sure to stop working in one way (company goes bankrupt or gets bought) or another (planned obsolescence, forced upgrade, etc) in a few years time. Configure your own using one of the existing tools; if you use Owncloud or Nextcloud you could use my OPDS Catalog app ( https://apps.owncloud.com/content/show.php?content=168132 ), possibl…

> Try to send the industry a signal by refusing to buy encumbered books (DRM, proprietary formats, etc). This is what animal rights activists are advocating to do with meat products in the industry. Does the technique work, universally? Does it have success? It sounds reasonable, but requires a lot of people to change their behaviors.

Boycotts can work because you are able to excersize social influence and slowly change the morals of your society. What you eat is going to be something that people you interact with learn about you.

How you interact with DRM isn't something many people are going to learn about you unless you make an effort to share it.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#63

Post by lfowles »

wlesieutre wrote: post #24
kakarot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orrrr support a non-DRM publisher. Ya know

Kobo sells some books without DRM. But there's no way to search by it, and it's no longer mentioned on the search results page. It used to be, but they removed that for god knows what reason. Now you have to click on a book and scroll down to the bottom of the page to check the download options. But hey, still better than Amazon and Nook. EDIT: if anyone's a fan of fantasy, all of Brandon Sanderson's stuff is DRMless…

Amazon and BN sell _some_ books without DRM as well. To encompass your Sanderson example, all of Tor ebooks[0] are DRM free regardless of distribution channel.

[0]: http://www.tor.com/2012/07/20/torforge-e-books-are-now-drm-f...

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#64

Post by njharman »

DRM is a symptom. The disease is ridiculously expansive and one-sided copyright law.

This is still good fight. Although I'm not optimistic. If DMCA wasn't laughed out of the courts when it made Sharpie(tm) markers illegal "circumvention devices" I kind of doubt that logic and rationality is in control at our legislative and judicial systems.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#65

Post by riskable »

madaxe_again wrote: post #2

It appears the EFF intend to fight section 1201 (thou shalt not circumvent) on first amendment free speech arguments, and on the idea that punishment for circumvention creates a chilling effect. I don't think a court will buy it. They'll argue that 1201 protects the free speech of content creators, and that it works as intended - and they will cite the decss appeal, which was won by the media giants on the same argum…

I think part of the argument the EFF will make is that section 1201 is inherently in conflict with itself in regards to fair use (an argument which was explicitly not ruled upon in the DeCSS court case) and free speech (to a lesser extent). On the one hand the DMCA states that no one may make available any tool that circumvents a control that protects a copyrighted work while on the other hand it states (c 1):

    Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, 
    limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, 
    including fair use, under this title.
...and also (c 4):

    Nothing in this section shall enlarge or diminish any
    rights of free speech or the press for activities using
    consumer electronics, telecommunications, or computing
    products.
If a control exists and there's no mechanism to circumvent it how can those two paragraphs ever apply? You could make the argument that for certain works such as movies and music you have alternate means of obtaining the material but for something like a hardware device (e.g. pacemaker) there exists no mechanism other than circumvention tools for anyone to exercise their right of fair use. Therefore (in such cases) the anti-circumvention clauses of the DMCA are a violation of constitutional rights.

If circumvention tools cannot be made available then citizens are effectively barred from exercising their constitutional rights.

I firmly believe that the judge made a horrible mistake in the original DeCSS case when it was ruled that posting the source code of a circumvention tool does not constitute free speech. It damn well is free speech! It's literally just a bunch of words and numbers along with a few math symbols (code). I believe the idiocy of the ruling was made abundantly clear when people uploaded audio of themselves singing the source code aloud.

Apparently it's time to put that "Source Code is Free Speech" bumper sticker back on my car.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#66

Post by wlesieutre »

lfowles wrote: post #63
wlesieutre wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kobo sells some books without DRM. But there's no way to search by it, and it's no longer mentioned on the search results page. It used to be, but they removed that for god knows what reason. Now you have to click on a book and scroll down to the bottom of the page to check the download options. But hey, still better than Amazon and Nook. EDIT: if anyone's a fan of fantasy, all of Brandon Sanderson's stuff is DRMless…

Amazon and BN sell _some_ books without DRM as well. To encompass your Sanderson example, all of Tor ebooks[0] are DRM free regardless of distribution channel. [0]: http://www.tor.com/2012/07/20/torforge-e-books-are-now-drm-f...

Oh interesting, I guess I haven't paid much attention to the ebook markets since I bought my Nook Simple Touch, I've just made a habit of checking Kobo first because they were the ones offering no-DRM at the time. Good to know!

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#67

Post by tedunangst »

jessaustin wrote: post #55
dhimes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But these prices haven't changed much in decades. Books have always cost that much, as have albums (the exception being textbooks). Discount vinyl record albums were US $5.99 in the 1970s . I have issues with DRM, but not because I find the prices exorbitant.

When you bought vinyl or CDs, you owned that. How can a temporary rental be worth the same?

Because it takes up less space in my house.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#68

Post by icebraining »

6stringmerc wrote: post #54
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every change in law has some ripple effects on some for-profit market. Saying that therefore, an organization pushing for that change is somehow against making a profit in that market is just straw-manning it.

Okay, I can follow how you interpret my statement. I'd like to clarify that what I was reaching for - and maybe missed - is establishing a "motive." As in, what is the "motive" to change the law? Is it completely altruistic? Is it capitalistic? I'd like to think you'll grant me that the article is very one-sided, in that there's not a single mention of the arts industry's concerns with why they would fight so hard (a…

To the FSF, and many others like me, DRM is a violation of human freedom. The art industry's concerns are valid, but introducing them into the DRM debate makes as much sense as the dairy industry's concerns when discussing the adulteration of milk with melanin. The point is simply not up to discussion as far as we are concerned.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#69

Post by njharman »

FussyZeus wrote: post #5

The fact is both sides of this have a lot to answer for in terms of eroding the underlying relationship when it comes to any consumer/creator transaction. For a long time media companies made it artificially hard to purchase content legally and in so doing are at least partially responsible for the rampancy of piracy. In turn, a lot of people got used to pirating content for free instead of paying for it, even when r…

> reasonably priced

When a cartel has monopoly on distribution (which is $$ thing copyright provides and DRM attempts to shore up) and thus sets prices and even when/how/if you get to buy/rent content, how can you claim to know what reasonable price is?

Your other claims are even more spurious. "A decent number of pirates..." Yeah, how many is that? what % is "decent"? what study are you citing for this shocking revelation? and what exactly is the economic impact of these people refusing to buy what they were never going to buy anyway but proving free markting? Cause there are actual studies showing piracy increases sales. You can use the google. Though, I suspect you're too lazy, here's one https://ideas.repec.org/p/qed/wpaper/1354.html

The problem facing media industry is that the actual value of most content is probably near $0.00. The supply of content is unbelievably massive. Far outstriping demand. So, the Media industry spends much money to generate artificial demand. Through marketing, advertising, whole shows / channels E! exist only to generate demand for content and voa lobbying for distribution restrictions.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#70

Post by reitanqild »

tedunangst wrote: post #67
jessaustin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you bought vinyl or CDs, you owned that. How can a temporary rental be worth the same?

Because it takes up less space in my house.

I say not valid because you can rip the physical media and store the original in cheap offsite storage for whoever inherits you => best of both worlds.
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