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New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

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Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#81

Post by TillE »

marcosdumay wrote: post #62
FooBarWidget wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If battery life is really what people care about, even over features, then everbody would be using dumbphones instead of smartphones. So as much as people cynically complain about companies, battery life isn't what people value after all.

I don't see many people claiming they want battery life over features , generalized like that. There are plenty of people claiming to want battery life over thickness. And I don't even think a 1 cm thick phone will sell - there's a limit in that.

Right. If you look at the sales of battery cases, you have an absolute minimum number of people who are willing to pay more and accept much more thickness for more battery life.

I'd be happy to buy a 50% thicker iPhone if it could handle a whole day of hard usage.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#82

Post by deelowe »

branchly2 wrote: post #79
deelowe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your market? If it's the US, there's certainly a need for longer travel distances between charging cycles. Most EV's don't have enough charge to allow for commuting to and from work yet. Especially when you factor in grabbing groceries, taking errands, or other things. I'm not sure what the right amount of range should be, but it feels like it needs to be around 150 miles or so to allow for a comfortable buffe…

Yes, the US. My point is, you can either increase range by having better batteries, or you can do so by charging up while at your destination (ex., in your parking lot at work). It gets even better if you're running errands and you've got a charging station at the grocery store, library, city hall, etc.

Having to rely on others to ensure you can get around causes a lot of anxiety. Also, it's probably a lot easier to get consumers to add chargers to their homes and automakers to extend the range of cars than to convince uninvested third parties to build out infrastructure.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#83

Post by cheriot »

EpicEng wrote: post #55
cheriot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American government funded research that turns into a business creating jobs in America sounds like a reasonable outcome to me. After China stole solar, we need some other industry with growth potential. Edit: Do the down voters care to comment? Anti-nationalism, anti-capitalism, or what?

I don't know why you're being down voted. It is in the public interest for businesses like these to prosper.

My conspiracy theory is that the comment swung from -4 to +4 as China went to sleep and the US arrived at work.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#84

Post by yessql »

mtgx wrote: post #33

I remember SolidEnergy. We discussed it here on HN before. It was one of the, if not the most promising companies to have made "battery breakthroughs", a few years ago. And they also seem to be launching right on time (I believe they promised a 2016-2017 release date a few years ago). What's strange though is that Tesla always brags about how it has a list with "hundreds" of such battery breakthroughs, and that they…

There are many import properties of battery, which I don't see mentioned. They talk only about energy density and safety.

- What is the Power Density? If it can only charge and discharge slowly, then your Tesla becomes slow and not fun to drive, and you can't fill it up quickly at a supercharger, or maybe even overnight at home.

- What is the longevity of the cell? How fast does it degrade with usage?

- What are the temperature effects on the cell? Will the cell require a new thermal management system to get full capacity, power, and longevity?

- What is the cost?

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#85

Post by touristtam »

cheriot wrote: post #10
matthewmorgan wrote: post #6

Is it the case that the research was publicly-funded, but the profits are now being privatized?

American government funded research that turns into a business creating jobs in America sounds like a reasonable outcome to me. After China stole solar, we need some other industry with growth potential. Edit: Do the down voters care to comment? Anti-nationalism, anti-capitalism, or what?

The issue is publicly founded research aleviate the burden of the investment from the private sector, while selling the right to the new technology to a sole private entity. The whole thing could, unless the government blocked it, be sold to a private chinese company down the line.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#86

Post by branchly2 »

deelowe wrote: post #82
branchly2 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the US. My point is, you can either increase range by having better batteries, or you can do so by charging up while at your destination (ex., in your parking lot at work). It gets even better if you're running errands and you've got a charging station at the grocery store, library, city hall, etc.

Having to rely on others to ensure you can get around causes a lot of anxiety. Also, it's probably a lot easier to get consumers to add chargers to their homes and automakers to extend the range of cars than to convince uninvested third parties to build out infrastructure.

> Having to rely on others to ensure you can get around causes a lot of anxiety.

I suppose. But as it stands I'm already relying on gas stations.

> Also, it's probably a lot easier to get consumers to add chargers to their homes {snip}

Sorry if I was unclear. I was assuming that as a given. If I've got an EV, it's going to be plugged into the charger at home every night.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#87

Post by dailo10 »

What I find exciting about this is:

1. They were "forced to prototype on existing lithium ion manufacturing equipment". This brings them much closer to actual, scalable manufacturing.

2. Hu's ability to develop solutions when challenges arise. He figured out how to get the battery working at room temperature. He was able to adapt his approach to work on existing manufacturing equipment.

Hu sounds like a world class talent, and I admire his ability to overcome challenges. Here's hoping SolidEngergy succeeds!

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#88

Post by branchly2 »

bluGill wrote: post #76
branchly2 wrote: post #70

The answer here isn't batteries with more capacity. The answer is: * more areas to lock your bike/scooter/moped (electric or otherwise) * coin-/card-operated charging stations (as in, "plug in while you shop") * charging stations where you work (to charge your EV during the day) I don't think swappable battery stations would be useful, since batteries are damaged by deep-discharging them, and swap-stations would end…

> I don't think swappable battery stations would be useful, since batteries are damaged by deep-discharging them, and swap-stations would end up with too many damaged batteries that way. That depends - just design a tamper evident battery that contains enough electronics so that when you swap it you pay for not just the power to recharge it, but also the damage you did by using it. So long as the fees are upfront and…

Could work, though I think it would add operational complexity ("hey, I paid to swap in good batteries, but these barely held a charge!").

I wonder if it's possible to have a battery go into a low-current mode when it gets down to $n percent charge ("Warning: time to recharge or swap! You have $x Amp-hours left! Going into econ mode."), then disconnect itself completely when down to $m (where $m < $n, and going lower than $m would significantly affect the life of the battery).

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#89

Post by chriswarbo »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #29
gonvaled wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that was a practical joke for over 5 years with USB 2, and I do not find it so funny when plugging in my phone to the charger half sleep at 3 o'clock in the morning.

Actually, USB 2 is nice in one way, it makes it easier to explain half-spin particles in quantum mechanics. "Just like plugging in USB, you have to rotate more than 360° to get back to where you started."

After the umpteenth time of hearing that joke, it's still not funny, and it still makes half-integer spin seem more mysterious.

A much better analogy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJRtxTyROOU

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#90

Post by matthew_morgan »

finid wrote: post #64
matthewmorgan wrote: post #6

Is it the case that the research was publicly-funded, but the profits are now being privatized?

This has always been the case. Researchers are free to take the results of their publicly-funded research and run. The govt. sees it as a win-win. It's money well spent because of the jobs created. Taxes from those jobs and profits from the corporations is the ROI.

So we're taxed in order to generate more money in taxes... How is that a "return on investment"? When is the return, exactly?

And if you follow the logic about jobs, why doesn't the government (i.e. the taxpayer) fund every potentially profitable venture (without asking for any share of the rewards)?

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