Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

defectivebydesign.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 209 posts

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#21

Post by kakarot »

superuser2 wrote: post #12
throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

I've taken to viewing Kindle books as a very expensive indefinite-but-temporary library loan. Between the years+ length of the borrowing period, instant delivery, lighted screen, compactness, and travel-friendliness it can be worth the premium over a public library loan. In dollars per hour of entertainment, it's better than some options. But it is ultimately a rental. If you have a relatively progressive library and…

Orrrr support a non-DRM publisher. Ya know

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#22

Post by derekp7 »

throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

The recourse for anyone else would be a lawsuit in small claims court. That would at least get their attention, and possibly an issue resolution.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#23

Post by bad_user »

Just a friendly reminder that there are online shops that sell DRM-free content. I found this guide helpful: https://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide

In particular, I'm a Downpour.com customer for audio books. Up until now they had all the content I wanted, high quality too. And with a subscription the prices are good.

I've also bought DRM-free games from Gog.com. E-books I sometimes buy from Google Play, where they have mixed content. I only bought DRM-free books from them, like for example the books in the Ender's Game series. The publishers of all technical books I needed, like O'Reilly or Manning, are publishing DRM-free. If I want a book that's only available as DRM-enabled, I buy it in print.

For music, I used to have a Google Play Music subscription and also tried Apple Music. But then I realized that I need streaming for work basically and online radio is better. For example I like RadioParadise.com, they are ads free.

Bitching about DRM to let other people know about its problems is cool, but even cooler is voting with your wallet.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#24

Post by wlesieutre »

kakarot wrote: post #21
superuser2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken to viewing Kindle books as a very expensive indefinite-but-temporary library loan. Between the years+ length of the borrowing period, instant delivery, lighted screen, compactness, and travel-friendliness it can be worth the premium over a public library loan. In dollars per hour of entertainment, it's better than some options. But it is ultimately a rental. If you have a relatively progressive library and…

Orrrr support a non-DRM publisher. Ya know

Kobo sells some books without DRM. But there's no way to search by it, and it's no longer mentioned on the search results page. It used to be, but they removed that for god knows what reason. Now you have to click on a book and scroll down to the bottom of the page to check the download options.

But hey, still better than Amazon and Nook.

EDIT: if anyone's a fan of fantasy, all of Brandon Sanderson's stuff is DRMless. That's the example I can remember off the top of my head.

Details section down below the reviews, you'll see "Download options:EPUB 3 (DRM-Free)"

Example here https://store.kobobooks.com/en-us/ebook/the-way-of-kings-1

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#25

Post by Yetanfou »

throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

Don't rely on any 'official' solution to maintain your digital library as those are sure to stop working in one way (company goes bankrupt or gets bought) or another (planned obsolescence, forced upgrade, etc) in a few years time. Configure your own using one of the existing tools; if you use Owncloud or Nextcloud you could use my OPDS Catalog app (https://apps.owncloud.com/content/show.php?content=168132), possibly combined with Reader (https://apps.owncloud.com/content/show.php/Reader+(ebook+rea...) for when you happen to be without a reader device.

Try to send the industry a signal by refusing to buy encumbered books (DRM, proprietary formats, etc). If you feel like you absolutely must have a book which is only available in an encumbered format I'd suggest you convert it to an open and unencumbered format as soon as you get your hands on it. Store it in this format, it should be usable in years to come.

Keep good backups, this is one of the advantages of a digital library which partly offsets its greater vulnerability to disaster compared to a physical library. It takes a lot of effort to destroy a physical library, but a simple rm -rf will do for a digital one. Store your backups in several locations, off-site, somewhere out on the 'net in an encrypted container file (free cloud storage accounts are handy for this purpose, just refresh them every now and then and don't rely on them as a single source).

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#26

Post by hga »

throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

Wow, thanks for the implicit warning, I've been an Amazon customer since a year after they opened, am using them very heavily right now as I remodel and move to a small house built in 1910, and it would be crippling to be disconnected from my order history and wish lists.

I've only bought a very few Kindle books sold for $0 or on deep discount, never bought a Kindle, and only bought 1-2 digital copies of music when the CD was out of print and way too expensive. No way will I buy another digital item from Amazon if they make it this dangerous....

I don't think they want this outcome, but the more they savage their customers like they did you, the more it'll happen.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#27

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

6stringmerc wrote: post #7
FussyZeus wrote: post #5

The fact is both sides of this have a lot to answer for in terms of eroding the underlying relationship when it comes to any consumer/creator transaction. For a long time media companies made it artificially hard to purchase content legally and in so doing are at least partially responsible for the rampancy of piracy. In turn, a lot of people got used to pirating content for free instead of paying for it, even when r…

This is very encouraging to read and I'm in complete agreement. I've posted a link to my essay in this thread because I share the media/tech slugfest perspective. Personally I think the starting point to get out of this mess is an overhaul first and foremost of Copyright terms. They're so far out of whack it genuinely stifles innovation and expression and progress...etc. Now, more than ever, time moves quickly - what…

The problem is the greed and narcissism on both sides.

The content corps make a ton of money by exploiting creative people. They used to be able to justify this by claiming that they sponsored and nurtured talent.

That was always a stretch, even when 15% of a CD sale - maximum - went to the original creator, and the rest to the rest of the industry. But advances did happen, and they were the only way creatives could afford to get on the first step of the professional ladder.

Now we have shitty YouTube and Spotify streaming deals where advances don't happen, and the industry - all of it - keeps way more than the 85% of nominal value it used to.

But the "I want it, so you should give it to me for nothing because it costs nothing to copy" pirates aren't any better.

How many pirates have made any effort to sponsor creators, or pay creators directly for original content?

So what we actually have isn't a moral battle between good guys and bad guys. It's a battle between two distribution cartels - one legally sanctioned, the other not yet sanctioned but hoping to be.

And both are increasingly indistinguishable in their lack of interest in sponsoring and promoting original creative work.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#28

Post by patrec »

pdkl95 wrote: post #14
bsharitt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll only buy DRM content as long as I can easily remove it, and right now the only DRM content I regularly buy is books mostly from Google and Amazon. The first thing i strip the DRM and archive it.

I recommend against the buy-and-strip approach, because you are still signaling that you are ok with (some) DRM. The only signal you are sending back to the manufacturer is your purchase. The only thing the manufacturer sees is how the addition of DRM affects their profit, and you're telling them that the DRM is acceptable.

This battle is lost and the reality is already much worse than just DRM. It is increasingly impossible to actually own digital content and all content is moving to digital. You only lease at the revocable pleasure of some multi-billion dollar corporation. No resale, no inheritance, no right of refusal of obnoxious TOS changes if you want continued access.

Yes, for some technical books it is still possible to buy a DRM free pdf and have something approximating ownership rights, including resale -- for example http://shop.oreilly.com/category/customer-service/ebooks.do.

But as far as I can tell that's only true for a tiny techical niche -- if there is an alternative to kindle, amazon etc. that actually has a reasonable selection and true ownership I'd love to hear about it.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#29

Post by superuser2 »

kakarot wrote: post #21
superuser2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken to viewing Kindle books as a very expensive indefinite-but-temporary library loan. Between the years+ length of the borrowing period, instant delivery, lighted screen, compactness, and travel-friendliness it can be worth the premium over a public library loan. In dollars per hour of entertainment, it's better than some options. But it is ultimately a rental. If you have a relatively progressive library and…

Orrrr support a non-DRM publisher. Ya know

Fuck no. Life is too short and literature matters too much to pass on good books and read worse ones just because of their publishers' DRM politics.

Don't reward DRM-encumbered ebooks, sure. If you want to punish the publisher, just buy it used on paper or go to the library. But read the books you wanted to read in the first place.

Re: Lawsuit could be the beginning of the end for DRM

#30

Post by lmm »

derekp7 wrote: post #22
throwaway1974 wrote: post #3

If it was not for DRM removal tools I would have recently been screwed by Amazon, here is my story: I was a longtime customer (easily 10 years or more I think) and have bought every version of Kindle to have come out over the years (unfortunately they break easily) and have build up a large collection Recently I replaced the debit card on my account as the old one expired, placed and order for a digital game code for…

The recourse for anyone else would be a lawsuit in small claims court. That would at least get their attention, and possibly an issue resolution.

Credit card chargebacks for every kindle book you bought? Would probably remove all chance of reconciliation, but it would send a message.
Post reply on HN