Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 244 posts

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#231

Post by argonaut »

Qworg wrote: post #134
argonaut wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fundamental architectural failure" is a very bold claim to make given that absolutely no other approaches have worked as well as Google's for urban driving.

There's a serious problem at the heart of "throw a bunch of data at it" strategy - driving has an extremely long tail that's relatively fat. You can hit the "average case" relatively quickly (you can assume that Google's done that for the SoCal environment), but being able to extend that dataset to other, less likely scenarios, like "heavy downpour in SF" or "freak snowstorm" or "sudden construction due to water main…

None of what you said has anything to do with my point that the pre-mapping and then LIDAR-localization approach taken by Google is the only approach shown to work.

You're making a point about end-to-end trained ML systems; if anything, that's an indictment of Tesla's approach, not Google's more traditional sensor-based-approach.

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#232

Post by argonaut »

jayjay71 wrote: post #48
argonaut wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fundamental architectural failure" is a very bold claim to make given that absolutely no other approaches have worked as well as Google's for urban driving.

How do you know that? There hasn't been a competition since 2007, and that was before Google was involved.

* That we know of. Tesla et al. have not publicized urban driving videos/examples, so I'm assuming they're not capable of it as well as Google, right now.

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#233

Post by jayjay71 »

argonaut wrote: post #232
jayjay71 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that? There hasn't been a competition since 2007, and that was before Google was involved.

* That we know of. Tesla et al. have not publicized urban driving videos/examples, so I'm assuming they're not capable of it as well as Google, right now.

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/delphi-autonomous-car-cross-co...

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#234

Post by argonaut »

jayjay71 wrote: post #233
argonaut wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* That we know of. Tesla et al. have not publicized urban driving videos/examples, so I'm assuming they're not capable of it as well as Google, right now.

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/delphi-autonomous-car-cross-co...

That article has 0 information about Delphi's approach. In fact, the Delphi car has LIDAR too. For all we know they could be taking Google/Uber's approach.

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#235

Post by jayjay71 »

argonaut wrote: post #234
jayjay71 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/delphi-autonomous-car-cross-co...

That article has 0 information about Delphi's approach. In fact, the Delphi car has LIDAR too. For all we know they could be taking Google/Uber's approach.

I used to work on this - the approach is very different. That's a pretty hollow statement on the internet though, so take it as you will.

An interesting aside - it seems like most of Google's team left this year. Chris Urmson left, Anthony Levandowski left, and many of their engineers are gone as well (many went to Otto). It'll be interesting to see what happens now that they've lost all of the original leadership (Sebastian Thrun left long ago).

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#236

Post by tunap »

losteverything wrote: post #124
nkoren wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the right questions to be asking! Yes, there has been some talk -- but not remotely enough. At present, the vast majority of work in the vehicle-automation space is being done by, well, vehicle people. The assumption is that driverless vehicles will slot into the existing infrastructure with minimal modification. There's a fair amount of consideration being given to vehicle-to-infrastructure communications…

Ty. Love to follow this as it progresses Government has to get involved. Sometime and somewhere. Public safety is one aspect I suggested to one town councilman that our town introduces a bill (ordinance) banning driver less vehicles. Just like we can ban oversized vehicles and parking in the winter. Our government should ban then now while it is not yet happening. He thought it would be a good idea not to ban them bu…

Not supposed to down/up vote to show dis/agreement, but since it is already in play have a vote for tempering new-tech zeal with real world pragmatism.

PS: I don't necessarily agree w/ bans or taxes, just don't like the up/down culture of 'popularity'. The sooner the texters & PMGo players are relegated to child seats, the better for all drivers/passengers/riders, IMO.

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#237

Post by fps »

dilap wrote: post #79
technofiend wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ubiquitous comment, as a person within the industry: there's a big difference between cars that have a hands-free driving mode, and cars that do not have a driver. Surely the pay is far less for the passive driver? If not I assume it will be soon.

Hmm, I'm not so sure. First, Uber drivers are already not making much. Drivers I've talked to here in SF say they are near $15/hour (though they can more in the form of bonuses if they hit certain hours-driven targets). Second, the job of a passive driver will actually be both more boring and harder -- you have to pay attention while doing nothing, but be ready to take over in a second. It's like being a passenger, e…

Drivers ed instructors, which is basically what supervising a self driving car is, are $14/hour average: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Driving_Instructor/H... I think this is higher than what uber is paying now.

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#238

Post by mdrzn »

Animats wrote: post #214
speleding wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to jump to completely driverless right away, there is a convenient intermediate step: The passenger can be the passive driver, and the car would drive to the pickup location empty. As soon as regulation allows, that step already gets you the major benefit of not having to "pay for the other dude in the car".

I once proposed that for airport rental cars - you'd call for a rental car, and it would self-drive, slowly, from the rental yard to the terminal. Then the renter takes over driving. At return, the driver gets out at the terminal, pushes the "done with rental" button, and the car drives itself, slowly, back to the rental yard. Major destinations with big parking lots could be on the system. Convention centers, sports…

Put some sensors inside the car, like in the backseat and the trunk. If they sense something is in the car when you press the "Done with rental" button, it will signal you and will not move. Solved.

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#239

Post by mdrzn »

n72 wrote: post #218
794CD01 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to human-driven cars, which keep going and run you over?

If I'm in a shady neighborhood and a drunk or threatening guy or whatever starts meandering towards me, if I'm driving I have the power to turn/drive around him/accelerate or whatever. If I'm sitting in the backseat of a driverless car, I don't have that option.

What if the car is already locked and can detect if the drunk guy hits on the car? Would you be safe enough?

Re: Uber’s First Self-Driving Fleet Arrives in Pittsburgh This Month

#240

Post by argonaut »

jayjay71 wrote: post #235
argonaut wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article has 0 information about Delphi's approach. In fact, the Delphi car has LIDAR too. For all we know they could be taking Google/Uber's approach.

I used to work on this - the approach is very different. That's a pretty hollow statement on the internet though, so take it as you will. An interesting aside - it seems like most of Google's team left this year. Chris Urmson left, Anthony Levandowski left, and many of their engineers are gone as well (many went to Otto). It'll be interesting to see what happens now that they've lost all of the original leadership (S…

What is the approach, then?
Post reply on HN