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Organisms might be quantum machines

bbc.com

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Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#21

Post by danbruc »

djsumdog wrote: post #18
danbruc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a reliable source for that? I omitted adding a source because if you look for scientific research on homeopathy you find essentially only studies stating that it does not work, Wikipedia has plenty of references.

I too would be interested in a source. I don't think that homeopathy works, but I am willing to admit I can be wrong. Doubt is essential to make progress: http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ Also, the placebo effect shouldn't be used dismissively. If you convince someone they should be feeling pain (tell them they're next to a low frequency transmitter that causes pain when they're really next to an empty speaker box),…

That was not meant dismissive, the placebo effect is of course a well established and very real effect. But there is nothing more than the placebo effect in homeopathy.

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#22

Post by Aelinsaar »

saskurambo wrote: post #9
danbruc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeopathy does not work except for the placebo effect, there are several studies.

Actually the mechanism of homeopathy isn't know. Clinic results are differente from test with placebo

It's known, and it's called "Placebo".

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#23

Post by Terr_ »

mixedmath wrote: post #2

Only somewhat related: I'm currently reading Anathem by Neal Stephenson. I'm nearing the end of the book, and the concept that human brains might use quantum processes in the decision-making process is a very important and prevalent idea in the novel. [Although he takes some artistic license --- it is only a novel, afterall]. So I've been thinking, at least passively, about organisms being quantum machines quite a bi…

My cynical prediction is that if quantum-effects are part of the brain, it will only be in a practical, philosophically-boring way.

So they may be essential to basic plumbing shared by many species, but not otherwise a game-changing factor for "consciousness" or "intelligence".

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#24

Post by danbruc »

kakarot wrote: post #15
danbruc wrote: post #5

Tl;dr Biology is applied chemistry, chemistry is applied quantum physics and in some cases chemistry is a leaky abstraction and does not perfectly explain what is going on in organisms. Three examples - photosynthesis being more efficient than expected, birds sensing Earth's magnetic field by an unknown mechanism and a lack of understanding how olfaction works in detail - are presented but besides that there are no n…

I was under the assumption that the working theory is birds share a similar feature as fruit flies and possibly foxes. The cones that allow us to see blue light actually work as compasses when suspended in a fluid, and they are not attached to the retina of a fruit fly but are suspended in their eye and thus shape incoming visual patterns around magnetic fields https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoreception

That is essentially the proposed mechanism discussed in the article but the article gives the impression - at least to me - that it is not yet confirmed that this indeed how it works in birds.

EDIT: After skimming the Wikipedia article, both articles agree that it is a possible but not yet confirmed mechanism.

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#25

Post by flukus »

raddar4 wrote: post #11
saskurambo wrote: post #4

This can open new research also on how works for example homeopathy and acupunture?

There does seem to be a body of anecdotal evidence pointing towards some kind actual happening "outside what we know" for phenomenon like the "kundalini" effect, however I don't see how the mechanism of action could be quantum in nature. That is, I suppose, not saying much as I don't see how it could work in any case, but I think more exploratory work does need to be done. Then again, I don't really know and if anyon…

> There does seem to be a body of anecdotal evidence

So no actual evidence then?

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#26

Post by Florin_Andrei »

mixedmath wrote: post #2

Only somewhat related: I'm currently reading Anathem by Neal Stephenson. I'm nearing the end of the book, and the concept that human brains might use quantum processes in the decision-making process is a very important and prevalent idea in the novel. [Although he takes some artistic license --- it is only a novel, afterall]. So I've been thinking, at least passively, about organisms being quantum machines quite a bi…

It's an excellent book that takes you on a trip through a couple millennia of development of thought in philosophy and physics, all presented in an accessible and entertaining way. Highly recommended.

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#27

Post by jheriko »

quite interesting, but its a bit confused... and its not exactly a revelation that processes involving molecules or particles are best explained by quantum effects. this is precisely where quantum physics came from - trying to explain these things.

"The wet, warm, bustling environment of living cells is the last place you might expect to see quantum events."

stuff like this is misleading imo. its exactly the sort of place you expect to see quantum effects - because its in the universe and at the appropriate scale.

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#28

Post by ekianjo »

djsumdog wrote: post #16

In Kim Stanley Robinson's fictional series on Mars (Red, Blue, Green Mars), researches discover that memory is actually based on quantum physics. It's a really good series I highly recommend, and it's won awards because Robinson put a lot of research into make the book believable. The descriptions and time scales used in the book make it very accessible to engineers while also containing incredible character developm…

We dont have a good understanding of the brain because our techniques of observation are very limited. No need to call for quantum physics at this stage.

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#29

Post by ekianjo »

danbruc wrote: post #21
djsumdog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too would be interested in a source. I don't think that homeopathy works, but I am willing to admit I can be wrong. Doubt is essential to make progress: http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ Also, the placebo effect shouldn't be used dismissively. If you convince someone they should be feeling pain (tell them they're next to a low frequency transmitter that causes pain when they're really next to an empty speaker box),…

That was not meant dismissive, the placebo effect is of course a well established and very real effect. But there is nothing more than the placebo effect in homeopathy.

Note that most of what we call placebo effect is actually return to the mean. True placebo effect exists but its much more limited than what people usually think.

Re: Organisms might be quantum machines

#30

Post by ekianjo »

danbruc wrote: post #6
saskurambo wrote: post #4

This can open new research also on how works for example homeopathy and acupunture?

Homeopathy does not work except for the placebo effect, there are several studies.

And i would add that homeopathic drugs are not required to prove their effect in blinded trials to be registered. Thanks to Boiron and their powerful sugar-coated pills lobby.
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