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Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

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Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#281

Post by ende »

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

Independent of the presence or absence of a public option, the benefits of a private market largely depend on whether an actual competetive market with consumer choice and pricing comparison can exist. In the US it cannot due to regulatory capture and occupational licensing plaguing the industry and creating massive market distortions. Consumers are completely disconnected from pricing.

Single payer and private markets can be complimentary, with private insurance funding more personalized care and a recourse from the dreaded death panels.

Single payer with private markets seems to be the model many countries are converging on.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#282

Post by antisthenes »

zaroth wrote: post #229
rrggrr wrote: post #11

You can either have a system where everyone is covered at great relative expense to the healthy, or one where everyone is covered at great expenses to taxpayers. Either way, quality of care, breadth of services and speed of access are going to suffer. Demographic reality is inescapable.

Only 5-10% pay the majority of taxes, but almost everyone is, eventually, not healthy. Another way to put it is that average lifetime healthcare cost is about $250k for men, $350k for women. So yes, definitely people should be paying for health insurance while they are healthy, so that they can also have it when they are sick. In a sense, health insurance should be priced just like a $250k/$350k term-life policy that…

> Another way to put it is that average lifetime healthcare cost is about $250k for men, $350k for women.

Do you have a source for these numbers?

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#283

Post by lutorm »

Randgalt wrote: post #271
lutorm wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fair number of people would consider the right to health care a fundamental human right.

How can you logically have a right to the services of someone else? Health care is a product - doctors, hospitals, medicine, etc. These must all be produced by people.

You can't divine rights out of some fundamental logic. The only ones who can decide what rights humans have are the humans themselves, and then we structure our society to make sure those rights aren't violated.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#284

Post by Randgalt »

Randgalt wrote: post #271
lutorm wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fair number of people would consider the right to health care a fundamental human right.

How can you logically have a right to the services of someone else? Health care is a product - doctors, hospitals, medicine, etc. These must all be produced by people.

"You can't divine rights out of some fundamental logic" - of course you can. This is the role of philosophy.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#285

Post by Randgalt »

gnaritas wrote: post #259
Randgalt wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if the majority votes to take away the rights of, oh I don't know, Japanese citizens -- that's a world you want to live in? You're not thinking clearly about the issue.

No, you're not thinking clearly; the constitution requires a super majority, and yes, if a super majority of people want to be governed a particular way, then they deserve that right, even if it's stupid; but you'd never get a super majority to agree to such a stupid bigoted rule and it conflicts with other parts of the constitution and would be ruled unconstitutional by the courts. Without the notion that the rules…

"you'd never get a super majority to agree to such a stupid bigoted rule and it conflicts with other parts of the constitution" - oh really? Please open a US history book.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#286

Post by intopieces »

seibelj wrote: post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

I was under the impression that the purpose of the private healthcare marketplace was to satisfy the right-leaning Democrats who were on the fence about passing Obamacare and as a pacifier against a full-scale filibuster by Republicans. I think the architects have known it's going to fail, and want to use this failure as leverage for the creation of the public option.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#287

Post by Frondo »

harryh wrote: post #278
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but Frondo also has a point. If insurance companies can cherry-pick individuals and refuse to sell to specific individuals where the insurance company is more likely to lose money, that's... not good. It kind of defeats the point of insurance, in fact. If Obamacare-as-a-block is business they don't want, they shouldn't have to take it. If it's a subset of individuals, I'm less sympathetic.

Indeed. Obamacare-as-a-block was specifically designed to try to eliminate this cherry picking of individuals. But it's turning out that the solution might not be adequate because insurance companies are choosing to just abandon the whole block. That's what I meant with my "closely related" comment above. And if the Obamacare exchanges don't work, that's no good either! As I said elsewhere, the economics of health ca…

This is a discussion the rest of the western world has had and solved in various ways over the last fifty years. The economics of health care isn't a new mystery the world has never before seen, for us to unravel here, it's a matter of policy where we're just lagging behind the rest of the west.

That's why I find these questions irrelevant.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#288

Post by lutorm »

Randgalt wrote: post #284
Randgalt wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you logically have a right to the services of someone else? Health care is a product - doctors, hospitals, medicine, etc. These must all be produced by people.

"You can't divine rights out of some fundamental logic" - of course you can. This is the role of philosophy.

Good luck with that.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#289

Post by [deleted] »

Frondo wrote: post #287
harryh wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Obamacare-as-a-block was specifically designed to try to eliminate this cherry picking of individuals. But it's turning out that the solution might not be adequate because insurance companies are choosing to just abandon the whole block. That's what I meant with my "closely related" comment above. And if the Obamacare exchanges don't work, that's no good either! As I said elsewhere, the economics of health ca…

This is a discussion the rest of the western world has had and solved in various ways over the last fifty years. The economics of health care isn't a new mystery the world has never before seen, for us to unravel here, it's a matter of policy where we're just lagging behind the rest of the west. That's why I find these questions irrelevant.

[deleted]

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#290

Post by Randgalt »

lutorm wrote: post #288
Randgalt wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can't divine rights out of some fundamental logic" - of course you can. This is the role of philosophy.

Good luck with that.

https://www.amazon.com/Objectivism-Philosophy-Ayn-Rand-Libra...
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