Live data from Hacker News

Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

huffingtonpost.com

141–150 of 353 posts

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#141
post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

Benefit: It got the republican votes necessary to pass the law.

Benefit: It prevented a mass disruption of jobs. Health insurers have lots and lots of workers.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#142
post #35
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no benefit. The benefit is for the legislatures who passed the law. There was no way that we'd get single payer here in the US because our Congress is very much in the pocket of the health care industry. As such, the markets were a compromise measure enacted by congress to make it easier for people to choose health care. Before Obamacare, it was sort of a black box where only HR people could figure out prici…

Obamacare has had one significant, lasting effect: culturally, the idea is now that everyone should have access to health care. That's the default. Bringing in a public option will be an easy, natural next step, if not for Clinton, then for whoever succeeds her.

I believe statistics say that expanding Medicaid added 8 million covered folks, about 15% of uninsured Americans, and otherwise Obamacare has only gotten an additional few percent of uninsured Americans to become insured. I don't think the norm is that everyone should have access to health insurance any more than it was before due to Obamacare's negligible increases in coverage.

[http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/10/obamacares-...]

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#143
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great for the people with lots of money. Not great for the people who die or go bankrupt in the name of "improvement".

Liberalize healthcare to allow anyone to provide it. Did you know that before the AMA was created that doctors had to do house calls or face living in abject poverty as a result of the market being flooded with healthcare professionals?

Given the appalling amount of quacks already providing "alternative" therapies that have no medical value: No thanks. I'd rather live a long, healthy life.

I find it almost comical that you want to opt for such an extreme measure rather than accept systems that have a proven track record of delivering much cheaper care.

And as I've pointed out: Both in Canada where you live, and in the UK where I live (as well as in unlikely places like China, which doesn't have a proper socialised healthcare system) you can pay to go private if you for some reason don't get to see a doctor fast enough, or isn't happy with the service. But at least in these countries there is something in place for those who can't afford to.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#144
post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

I'm surprised at how many people think the answer is "no benefit" or political expediency.

The hope is that insurers will compete with each other and find ways to reduce costs. Obamacare has regulations designed to prevent the most egregious cost-saving measures (denying claims, rescission, etc), so insurers will have to find ways to reduce costs other than simply not paying. Because many insurers are small, they can try experiments that would be prohibitive in a larger insurer. We'll get a lot of data about what works and what doesn't, which will filter up to larger insurers (like Medicare!).

One example of a way that an insurer could save money is pay-for-performance, that pays health care providers based on the health improvements of their patients instead of volume of services. Aetna is trying this.

That's the case for a market. (There's definitely a case against it too.)

One thing missing from this discussion is the fact that the health care exchanges are small relative to the rest of the market: around 10 million enrollees on the exchanges, compared to ~150 million in employer sponsored plans. This is because Medicaid expansion covered more people, and fewer employers dropped their employee-sponsored health insurance, compared to predictions. So the exchanges aren't really a big player.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Health care is done by the Provinces in Canada, with transfers from the Federal Government to help out. The most recent Alberta budget[0] puts the cost of health care at about $20B. This represents approximately 40% of Alberta government spending. Worth considering: Per http://www.chcf.org/publications/2016/05/health-care-costs-1... > US health spending reached $3.0 trillion in 2014, or $9,523 per capita, and accou…

> That's a better deal any way you look at it I'm Canadian and can't get a family doctor (nor can my wife). I don't consider that a "good deal". Maybe if it was more lucrative (read: doctors made more money, budgets were higher) we could attract more talent and I could?

Where do you live that you are having these problems? I was able to find a family doctor within a month of searching and reading reviews. Granted I'm based in a major city (Ottawa), but I was normally directed to other physicians when I called one that wasn't accepting patients.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#146
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way that we'd get single payer here because the Republican party has convinced their base that single-payer health care is socialism and that socialism is evil, which leads to the situation where poor people who desperately need health care and can't afford it still oppose single-payer even though they stand to gain the most from it.

Of course, the constituencies which oppose single-payer seem often to be composed of the same people who will vote out anyone who messes with their Social Security, Medicare, or VA benefits.

The same people: "those barbarians over there," no matter where you're standing.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#147
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eastern Europe didn't have equality. It had less equality than Western Europe and the US - the party elite basically carved up their countries as fiefdoms. To blame equality for problems caused by systems that never implemented anything like equality is quite bizarre.

It wasn't real socialism canard. …the story about the two fellows in the Soviet Union who were walking down the street and one of them says: Have we really achieved full communism? Is this it? Is this now full communism? The other one said: Oh no, things are gonna get a lot worse.

Let us assume it was socialism for the sake of argument:

It doesn't matter. There provably wasn't equality.

So whether or not what they had was socialism (which, by the way, does not require equality in any case) is entirely irrelevant to the argument.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#148
post #135
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reading those now.

"Now that millions more of Americans have good coverage..." This link is full of horse poop. Good coverage? Have you seen what the new ACA plans cover and don't cover?? And the cost?? Good is not a word I would use to describe their coverage. They should have said "access to coverage" and it would have been more believable.

So your only criticism is that you don't like the adjective they used in the summary? Neat.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#149
post #2

Can anyone succinctly explain the benefits of having a market for private health insurance companies, rather than a single provider of health insurance (government, aka "public option")? Can a capitalist case be made for their existence? Does the lack of a large private insurance market in countries with government-provided health insurance cause lots of inefficiencies and waste?

Everything the government provides causes lots of inefficiencies and waste, and unintended consequences to boot.

That said, some things may be worth the sacrifice, healthcare may be one of those things. One question to ask, will the quality of care improve (whatever the cost) if the government takes over?

Since the US is made up of states, what is stopping one state from providing single-payer and proving the model works?

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#150
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of government is not to require the most efficient option. Government isn't capable of it anyway. Government is force - nothing more. The purpose of government is to protect our rights. "Single payer" (a euphemism for socialized medicine) by definition violates rights by forcing people to do things against their will. For example, in Canada (until recently) people were prohibited from using private health…

> Government is force - nothing more. The purpose of government is to protect our rights. "Single payer" (a euphemism for socialized medicine) by definition violates rights by forcing people to do things against their will. "Rights" are basically just freedoms we've decided we like a whole lot and want the government to guarantee, so that's not exactly a static category. So on the one hand we can just decide whicheve…

"'Rights' are basically just freedoms we've decided we like a whole lot and want the government to guarantee" - as I said below, the logical conclusion of that argument is not a world you'd want to live in. -- "is there any such thing as a government that does not force people to do things they wouldn't voluntarily do?" - no there isn't. That's why it should be limited to protecting other people's rights.
Post reply on HN