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NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

npr.org

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Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your reply! >I think that incentive [is good], particularly when you're trying to draw subject matter experts. You bring up an excellent point. One of the fundamental problems with comments, I think, is that it creates a space in which ignorance and expertise are equally-weighted. In fact, it's often worse than that for reasons we all know: interesting issues are hard to distill into 300-or-so characters,…

RE:Machine learning: I think there are two problems with that approach, one cultural and one technological. The cultural issue is that many news orgs are still run by people for whom the idea that technology could accidentally censor a valid criticism or ban a decent voice is just too risky. I think this is changing, and many newsrooms today a little more fluid than when I really cared about the problem 4 years ago.…

>cultural issue

I understand, and I think that's probably the most difficult problem of the two. I'd just like to point out -- in the interest of discussion -- three things:

1. Pre-filtering for moderators is different (much safer) than auto-banning by a bot

2. It's valid both to filter informed opinions that are poorly expressed, and for a publisher to have a preferred "voice", i.e. a style of writing that it favors.

3. The argument can be made that machines are no more biased than human editors, and that in many cases, the biases of the former are known. As a corollary to this point, there exist certain ML techniques (e.g. randomized forrest classifiers) for which the decision process of an individual case can be retraced after the fact.

How do you think publishers would respond to these counter-points?

>technical problem

Counter-cop-out: someone has to be the first!

Somewhat-less-cop-outy-counter-cop-out: by your own admission, certain sites (e.g. Reddit) have high-quality automoderators.

I would argue that the problem is "approximately solved" and that this is sufficient for the purposes of moderating an internet news publisher. Again, I would make the signal-detection-theoretic point of my previous comment: I can selectively bias my automoderators in favor of reducing either false-alarms or misses. Of course, this brings us back to the cultural problem you mentioned.

By this I conclude that the bottleneck is cultural, which brings me to a follow-up question: what do you think is driving the increased tolerance towards accidentally censoring a "decent voice"? Is it the understanding that it doesn't matter so long as a critical mass of decent voices are promoted?

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#112

Cons: Requiring comments via Facebook means loss of anonymity. Pros: Requiring comments via Facebook means loss of anonymity. I suppose it depends on what your priorities are. If you'd like the insightful input of someone who might be close to the source of the topic at hand, but maintains anonymity for safety or fear of repercussion, then the requirement to use Facebook could be quite damaging. On the other hand, if…

> the Facebook requirement with its real-name policy could go some ways to curtailing that kind of dialogue. This was the theory was for a while, but empirical evidence has refuted it. People are just are bad or worse when posting under their real names, and it's not just an anecdotal feeling anymore: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160729/23305535110/study...

Thank you for the link providing non-anecdotal evidence that a real-name policy does nothing to discourage aggressive trolls. I run a Facebook page with a moderate number of likes (~75K), and the fact that the trolling was, if anything, louder and nastier than in a comparably sized community on reddit, was one of the first things I learned.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#114

I see comment moderation as one of the 'unsolved problems' left in this generation of the web. When I worked at Foreign Policy we worked hard to integrate new commenting tools and encourage power users, but we were just buried by the threats, spam, and low-value noise. Web technology scales, journalism scales (poorly, but a relatively small publication can pull big traffic), but right now there's just no substitute f…

What are your thoughts on incentivizing constructive comments? I've seen publishers (The Guardian, if memory serves) select thoughtful comments and re-print them as micro-articles in their own right. This seems to solve part of the problem by setting an established, if not mostly-objective, standard for comment quality: journalistic publication standards. As such, bias and opinion is welcome, provided that it's analy…

A podcast I frequent does this sort of thing. If your comment is read on the podcast (and they read one a day) then you get sent a .NET Rocks coffee mug. Which is kinda neat.

The podcast is .NET Rocks and their comments seem to be pretty good overall.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#115
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, in a meta argument, NPR itself only serves a small slice of the overall US audience -- should it be shut down too?

Wayyy different orders of magnitude. From NPR's self reported estimates, ~10% of the US population listens to NPR radio weekly. Only ~0.013% of web users commented on articles. No telling how many regularly read the comments without contributing. Does anyone have lurker estimates?

> ~10% of the US population listens to NPR radio weekly

~30 million users per week would put NPR on par with some of the social networks. Amazing feat by NPR if that number is legit.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#116
>But the Facebook discussions that do take place, in particular, tend to be more civil, most likely because users are required to use their own names (not that fake accounts don't get through, but there seem to be far fewer than the predominantly fake names that NPR commenters currently rely on).

I have not found this to be the case. Before I installed content blockers in my browser to block comments sections altogether, I was often taken aback by how many people made comments that included racial slurs and direct personal attacks on other users using Facebook accounts with their apparently real name and photo.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#117
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which articles are you reading? I have yet to see a single article where that has happened.

Comments to most articles about Snowden, refugees or gender issues are like that.

Probably a signal that the user base does not find those issues interesting.

Snowden because it's nothing we don't already know, and refugees or gender politics because they always degenerate into political (i.e. not interesting) mud slinging matches.

On a side note, if a community with the general high quality and good moderation of HN can't have a good discussion on those topics online, I'm inclined to believe that having same is just plain impossible.

Personally, my thought process upon seeing one of these articles is something like:

1) Ugh, another one. Let's check the comments..

2) As expected, a dumpster fire. Nobody even RTFA. Let's look at the article..

3) Nothing even remotely new or interesting. Who voted this up? Flag.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#118

We don't need to be able to comment on EVERYTHING. Unless you actively plan to use the comments for something, I think most sites should just remove them. It's fine to give people a outlet, a place for them to let their voice be heard. It often just misused and not a core feature for most sites. Even Youtube barely need comments. What I believe we need is a revival of the forum sites. Give people place beyond Reddit…

> What I believe we need is a revival of the forum sites. Give people place beyond Reddit

Isn't reddit a forum site? Confused.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#119

I see comment moderation as one of the 'unsolved problems' left in this generation of the web. When I worked at Foreign Policy we worked hard to integrate new commenting tools and encourage power users, but we were just buried by the threats, spam, and low-value noise. Web technology scales, journalism scales (poorly, but a relatively small publication can pull big traffic), but right now there's just no substitute f…

Disqus more or less figured out comment moderation around me. I'm yet to see a Disqus-powered comment system overran by undesirable content. HN is failing at comments. During last years, the community deteriorated to the point where for many articles every single comment is grayed-out downvoted. That signifies quite a rift in community. HN used to be upvote-intensive excitement-driven but today it's downvote-intensiv…

I only see that on political posts.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#120

I see comment moderation as one of the 'unsolved problems' left in this generation of the web. When I worked at Foreign Policy we worked hard to integrate new commenting tools and encourage power users, but we were just buried by the threats, spam, and low-value noise. Web technology scales, journalism scales (poorly, but a relatively small publication can pull big traffic), but right now there's just no substitute f…

Disqus more or less figured out comment moderation around me. I'm yet to see a Disqus-powered comment system overran by undesirable content. HN is failing at comments. During last years, the community deteriorated to the point where for many articles every single comment is grayed-out downvoted. That signifies quite a rift in community. HN used to be upvote-intensive excitement-driven but today it's downvote-intensiv…

I only see that on political posts.
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