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NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

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Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#91
post #47

95% of internet comments are pure trash and basically internet pollution. The other 5% can be a mixture of deep insight, thoughtful discussion, and relevant opinion. Sorting out the trash and insisting on quality comments is an unsolved problem, perhaps with an eventual tech solution. The New York Times is probably the only site I know of that does comments well, and they are obviously heavily moderated. But, they're…

We should ask ourselves what value on-article comment sections provide. I believe HN is good because it serves a specific trade purpose and caters to a specific high-end niche audience. HN's participants are willing to cross a significant participation threshold to be part of the community here. I believe that kind of structure needs to be in place to get good community participation. I guess I'd summarize it with these points:

1. require significant investment from the userbase to participate successfully

2. promise to assist the userbase with something that is critically valuable to them in exchange

3. regularly deliver on 2 to keep 1 worthwhile

4. provide reputation tracking and management utilities so that the user can cultivate a profile that reflects the investments made in point 1

5. for recurring participation, provide variable rewards that trigger the brain's hooks for surprise, which translates to enjoyment.

HN hits those points, but blogs definitely don't and don't want to. They want to bring in barely-interested readers from search, from anywhere on the web. Many of these readers won't even make it into the comment section. Thus, a good community tacked on to the bottom of their articles seems unlikely.

If those principles are required to cultivate a worthwhile community, the community should always occur external to the publication of the article. The community needs to be the centerpiece, not the article. I use HN this way; the discussion is the primary thing, the articles are the subjects submitted for the community's discussion.

The other caveat is that it's difficult to provide points 3 and 5 when you're just starting out. From what I've seen, it practically always has to be artificial until the momentum becomes self-driving (if there is a physical community that uses the online forum for spillover, this may not be applicable; this is basically what happened with HN). We need better solutions there.

Since individual blog posts have certain quantities of Google juice, comment sections will be overrun with spa--err, "SEO professionals". Other participants are often low-effort drive-bys. If the community isn't the principal focus, participation will be spotty and it will be hard to develop elements fundamental to meaningful community engagement.

Facebook and Twitter are normal people making normal comments on random stuff they see. These people generally feel a compulsion to let their feelings out and Facebook/Twitter provide it. I believe this is probably what was originally intended for blog comments, but because Facebook/Twitter are real, stable communities, the participants are inclined to leave comments there instead of on the target article itself. These comments are often loose and instinctive, which is not necessarily to say they're invalid or worthless, but a community won't form around individual postings because there's no common unifying dictum (point 2 is unfulfilled, and point 1 is minimal on random FB/Twitter posts).

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on incentivizing constructive comments? I've seen publishers (The Guardian, if memory serves) select thoughtful comments and re-print them as micro-articles in their own right. This seems to solve part of the problem by setting an established, if not mostly-objective, standard for comment quality: journalistic publication standards. As such, bias and opinion is welcome, provided that it's analy…

I think that incentive idea is great, and is a smart move to build a community, particularly when you're trying to draw subject matter experts. I like how some of the Ask reddits do it, by flagging people with verified advanced degrees. People think that news sites are afraid of conflicting opinions, but in my experience that's nonsense, it just has to be well thought out and not "DEATH TO ", which is the vast majori…

Thanks for your reply!

>I think that incentive [is good], particularly when you're trying to draw subject matter experts.

You bring up an excellent point. One of the fundamental problems with comments, I think, is that it creates a space in which ignorance and expertise are equally-weighted. In fact, it's often worse than that for reasons we all know: interesting issues are hard to distill into 300-or-so characters, and short, simple points are often more percussive.

Vetting credentials is a very good option IMHO for certain forums but not for others. Reddit's /r/askscience is an example of a forum in which it works well.

>It still doesn't solve the problem that for someone to _find_ those great comments, they have to _read_ them, and stop them from getting buried.

I wonder if this problem can't be solved through the use of machine-learning to classify comments into high-versus-low quality by grammatical and semantic analysis. This kind of first-pass filtering could, at the very least, help throw out the obvious trash and pre-select candidates for recognition.

Such a system can be tuned to minimize false-alarms (shitpost getting flagged as good), which I think represent the most problematic of classification errors. This is a nice problem-space for ML because the increase in misses implied by a bias against false-alarms doesn't degrade the service much: not having one's comment select for re-publication is unexceptional.

Thoughts?

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on incentivizing constructive comments? I've seen publishers (The Guardian, if memory serves) select thoughtful comments and re-print them as micro-articles in their own right. This seems to solve part of the problem by setting an established, if not mostly-objective, standard for comment quality: journalistic publication standards. As such, bias and opinion is welcome, provided that it's analy…

I think that incentive idea is great, and is a smart move to build a community, particularly when you're trying to draw subject matter experts. I like how some of the Ask reddits do it, by flagging people with verified advanced degrees. People think that news sites are afraid of conflicting opinions, but in my experience that's nonsense, it just has to be well thought out and not "DEATH TO ", which is the vast majori…

[deleted]

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Reddit trying to get rid of comments, too?

In no way and by no stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, it's more insidious than that. I've been a heavy Reddit user for 7 years. The situation on most subreddits is now basically all comments being moderator-approved at a fine level of detail. They just do it after the comments appear, giving the impression that free discussion is still happening. Which comments and threads are allowed to persist is becoming very obviously narrower over time, all over the site. There is daily consternation among users over it.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#95
post #47

95% of internet comments are pure trash and basically internet pollution. The other 5% can be a mixture of deep insight, thoughtful discussion, and relevant opinion. Sorting out the trash and insisting on quality comments is an unsolved problem, perhaps with an eventual tech solution. The New York Times is probably the only site I know of that does comments well, and they are obviously heavily moderated. But, they're…

I've always appreciated the NYT's approach to flag their "Picks" as not just the ones receiving the most upvotes/recommendations, but those that represent a wide variety of opinions.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#96

Cons: Requiring comments via Facebook means loss of anonymity. Pros: Requiring comments via Facebook means loss of anonymity. I suppose it depends on what your priorities are. If you'd like the insightful input of someone who might be close to the source of the topic at hand, but maintains anonymity for safety or fear of repercussion, then the requirement to use Facebook could be quite damaging. On the other hand, if…

I wonder if there's a way to allocate names that are pseudonymous but not disposable.

That is: you can have an alter ego (or 5) that aren't easily linked to your real identity, but new identities are hard enough to come by that getting banned isn't trivially bypassed by a new identity.

This would be a major step for email/messaging spam too.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, NPR's reporting is of exceedingly high-quality, by journalistic standards. I admit that the comment you're replying to is flippant, but NPR does check its facts quite well.

You don't need to be broadcasting lies or bad journalism to be broadcasting a political slant. It can show up in something as mundane as story selection or one-off comments on shows that are not hard news. There was an interesting study[1] from 2011 where NPR's Twitter social graph correlates with what you'd expect a person with left-leaning political tendencies to have. Probably a bit too broad to draw general concl…

That's true, but I think it misses the point.

Journalism is rarely (if ever) objective. Good journalism should, however, be factually-correct and analytical. In other words, the product you're paying for is along the lines of informed opinion.

The claim, as I understood it, was that NPR was making factually incorrect claims (i.e.: reporting things contrary to reality). Either the OP has a confused understanding of journalistic function (evident in the implication that NPR isn't objective, or somehow politically-slanted), or he's making a demonstrably false claim (NPR systematically lies and/or misrepresents truth).

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#98
post #86
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With automated troll armies it's hard to have a reasonable comments section.

I'm pretty sure the trolls are still human, albeit employed by organizations. With that in mind, I wonder if it's possible to create sites that are nothing but trollbait (i.e. articles supporting/critical of Russia) to soak up and waste the trolls' time.

Depends if you take Russian Olgino as example (based on how things appear to be). Profile creation is automated, some of the content posting seams to be identical texts being posted by multiple profiles. None-automated content is posted by different people for identical profiles working in shifts. I would guess they have something like monstrous SMM marketing platform some posts are automated some manual.

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#99
post #67
post #16

> The conclusion: NPR's commenting system — which gets more expensive the more comments that are posted, and in some months has cost NPR twice what was budgeted — is serving a very, very small slice of its overall audience. If this was the extent of their analysis (the article doesn't say), shame on them. People reading the comments should count too.

Plus, in a meta argument, NPR itself only serves a small slice of the overall US audience -- should it be shut down too?

Wayyy different orders of magnitude. From NPR's self reported estimates, ~10% of the US population listens to NPR radio weekly. Only ~0.013% of web users commented on articles.

No telling how many regularly read the comments without contributing. Does anyone have lurker estimates?

Re: NPR Website to Get Rid of Comments

#100

I think the fact this is a government service (or at least funded by gov) makes this choice far more interesting. It effectively sets a standard for services to avoid providing a open forum where the users can speak to one another, service providers and managing parties. Instead they are not bound to provide anything above and beyond their initial services. I dont think it is necessarilly wrong from them to do mass c…

NPR's mission statement doesn't include "a open forum where the users can speak to one another" though, and removing the comment section doesn't constitute censorship.

The web and many social media services are available for people to publicly and freely speak their mind, unlike some other governments, where censorship does in fact exist. Ultimately, I think moves like this are good for promoting a more decentralized version of the web where people host and manage their own content, e.g.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/technology/the-webs-creato...

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