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I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
21–30 of 53 posts
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#22What we're doing in tech right now is extremely dangerous. We're mixing political correctness over fact finding (i.e. what she said as first shoot then ask) with technical competency.
Remember when we shot Brendan Eich and replaced him with a marketing dude and then wondered why Firefox is suddenly driven by marketing decisions?
The boundaries are pretty(I say pretty, because even here countries opinions differ) clear on what physical rape is, but the boundaries on what is considered harassment in a global world are EXTREMELY blurry. Don't ever forget that.
And before you start shouting that I'm defending Jake, I'm not, I don't even like the guy.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#23If anyone could take the time to break down what this is about and why it's significant for those like me who are very out of the loop I'm sure we'd appreciate it.
I found this Wired article: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... Basically, multiple women accused Jake Applebaum, a big shot in the Tor community, of sexually assaulting them, and his ex-girlfriend (the OP) was made into a pariah for defending him. For what it's worth, if the accusations are true, it's not improbable that he would've refrained from being an ass to his ex-girlfriend. Brock…
Well that's not a very impartial summary.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
That site is pure social media vigilantism. They specifically state that they don't need for him to be proven guilty in a court of law. Really bad for our industry and society to have stuff like this out there. EDIT since I'm blocked from further commenting: Not only are we as tech industry members told to believe all accusations (made by the "right" person) regardless of the lack of evidence. We are _encouraged_ to…
So if you were 90% sure (not enough to convict) a guy was going to murder someone you'd be happy with him hanging out with your friends? Of course you wouldn't, so stop using criminal law as your standard for identifying when someone's a bad hat.
I wouldn't create a website named after the person accusing them of things the court didn't find them guilty of.
Not hanging out with someone because you don't trust them? Fine.
Publicly assassinating someone's reputation with no evidence, chance for rebuttal or formal hearing? Bogus.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#25I read the whole drama bomb which could be a high school aged spat as easily as the adults involved in the Tor project, but this stood out: >To be clear I believe Jake has hurt people (which he has admitted himself) and didn't respect people's boundaries. I do not believe he is a rapist or a harasser and I am wondering what the people who started this campaign are trying to achieve. Admitting he's abusive and ignores…
Hurting someone and being abusive are not the same. It also doesn't specify they he ignored physical boundaries (could he have been too clingy?)
> Hurting someone and being abusive are not the same.
Disrespecting boundaries and being abusive are the same. What boundaries differentiates between emotional and physical abuse, and in some cases between whether the abuse is merely an ethical issue or actually a legal issue, as well.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#26If anyone could take the time to break down what this is about and why it's significant for those like me who are very out of the loop I'm sure we'd appreciate it.
I am a woman, and I estimate that more than half of the Tor core people know I was dating him, or at least close to him. If Tor believed there was victims, why did no one ask if I had bad experiences with Jake? I have no idea what this is all about but it seems like high school drama and a total waste of time. If I'm missing something here I would like to be educated as well..
I think it's a good lesson about making reputation management a priority.
I don't know what to think of the entire situation. But undoubtedly everyone involved and the Tor project is significantly damaged by the affair.
Appelbaum either: (1) engaged in wrongdoing, or (2) let personal and professional relationships languish to the point people wanted to sabotage him. Either way, it is a good lesson to exercise caution within such a tight-knit community.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
[Edit] Nevermind: http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [2nd edit] For balance: https://ourresponse.org/
That site is pure social media vigilantism. They specifically state that they don't need for him to be proven guilty in a court of law. Really bad for our industry and society to have stuff like this out there. EDIT since I'm blocked from further commenting: Not only are we as tech industry members told to believe all accusations (made by the "right" person) regardless of the lack of evidence. We are _encouraged_ to…
A lot of people involved with the Tor project have objections to various governments, and various governments have targeted some of them. Some people are just plain anarchists. Here are the steps the accusers in this case want taken: https://medium.com/@flexlibris/theres-really-no-such-thing-a... It's not exactly a lynch mob.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#28What we're doing in tech right now is extremely dangerous. We're mixing political correctness over fact finding (i.e. what she said as first shoot then ask) with technical competency. Remember when we shot Brendan Eich and replaced him with a marketing dude and then wondered why Firefox is suddenly driven by marketing decisions? The boundaries are pretty(I say pretty, because even here countries opinions differ) clea…
Don't be ridiculous. Eich couldn't be CEO if for no other reason than that he didn't have a narrative ready for when people brought up his donation to a controversial cause. Seriously basic PR, and he wasn't up for it. No CEO.
It's the same reason Yarvin can't run a technical organization -- not because he's not technically competent (he isn't, but that's a different conversation), but because he can't help himself from flaunting his violent racism and undermining whatever it is that he's involved in. If he could manage to turn off his bigotry faucet, maybe he could be trusted to run an actual project. Probably not.
Don't blame an increasingly inclusive and considerate culture for the continued incompetence of a bigoted few. It's not hard to do good technical work, but apparently it's quite difficult for these particular white men to manage without funding/advocating/practicing bigotry and sexism. That's on them, and every time you feel oppressed by "political correctness" a dozen or more people are feeling like they can participate safely for the first time.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I found this Wired article: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... Basically, multiple women accused Jake Applebaum, a big shot in the Tor community, of sexually assaulting them, and his ex-girlfriend (the OP) was made into a pariah for defending him. For what it's worth, if the accusations are true, it's not improbable that he would've refrained from being an ass to his ex-girlfriend. Brock…
Well that's not a very impartial summary.
It's pretty fair. Everything in that summary is a fact.
Re: I am very saddened to announce that I am quitting Tor
#30Yeah, and Camille Cosby stands by Bill. Hillary Clinton also stood by her husband, even though he criminally lied about the Lewinsky affair and has a long list of sexual liaisons some of which may cross the line into assault. Accept it: your ex-bf is a dick and everyone he was a dick to has a right to be pissed.
Clinton and Cosby have nothing to do with these allegations. It's pointless to bring them up.
Disagree. It's a good parallel.