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Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

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Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#191

Post by raoulduke »

riboflava wrote: post #167
geggam wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people insist on calling the US a democracy ? It is a Constitutional Republic with the only democratic process being the representatives you elect .... represent you ... sometimes... if they feel like it.... unless they have been bribe^H^H^H^H lobbied to do otherwise.

It is a democracy. A Constitutional Republic is just one way of implementing a democracy, similar to how a constitutional monarchy is just one way of implementing a monarchy. Mob rule everyone votes on everything and even a majority by one decides everything is another (poor) way of implementing democracy.

Sorry... your logic is flawed at least semantically. If a "constitutional monarchy is just one way of implementing a monarchy," then presumably a "Constitutional Republic is just one way of implementing a" republic.

The only nexus between republic and democracy in this case would be the Constitutional Republican Guarantee clause. Since that has essentially never been adjudicated we can't know for certain whether - at least in Constitutional terms - a Republic does convey democratic rights.

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#192

Post by kiba »

geggam wrote: post #79
balabaster wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes Russia pointing this out to make us lose trust in the U.S.? I think the U.S. has done this all on their own. Snowden was just the latest whistleblower showing the world they can't be trusted. There were others before him, but it got swept under the rug. We all know the U.S. election system is flawed to a point of being broken and thus democracy as we like to believe it's supposed to work doesn't even exist.…

Why do people insist on calling the US a democracy ? It is a Constitutional Republic with the only democratic process being the representatives you elect .... represent you ... sometimes... if they feel like it.... unless they have been bribe^H^H^H^H lobbied to do otherwise.

Do we need to have this conversation every time?

They absolutely do represent you.

What do you think the representatives doing when they're trying to fuel up the corporations in your district? They're representing your interests by making sure that the jobs stay where they are, just not the interest of the American people.

The senators represent the state's interest, the representatives represent the district's interest.

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#193

Post by balabaster »

pjc50 wrote: post #120
balabaster wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes Russia pointing this out to make us lose trust in the U.S.? I think the U.S. has done this all on their own. Snowden was just the latest whistleblower showing the world they can't be trusted. There were others before him, but it got swept under the rug. We all know the U.S. election system is flawed to a point of being broken and thus democracy as we like to believe it's supposed to work doesn't even exist.…

We all know That was the point I was trying to make with "unignorable public fact" - "we" don't "all" "know" that, for various values of those words. Would you expect TV anchors to say things like "Well, I'm standing outside this polling place, but I'm not really sure what the point is because elections are broken"? Millions of people get involved in fighting elections like they mean it. Consensus about this kind of…

Oh, I don't mean it's rigged or hacked or subject to intimidation. I feel like it's legitimately hamstrung/broken.

Equally I haven't lost faith in the U.S. - there are millions of amazing Americans. I've just lost faith in the U.S.'s a). ability to elect the person they really want in charge because the voting system is broken and b). the person they _do_ elect doesn't have any meaningful power anyway because the senate is purposely designed to restrict any meaningful power.

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#194

Post by zghst »

audeyisaacs wrote: post #168
benmcnelly wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think its a bit far fetched the US would meddle in the foreign affairs of an ally. We have a long documented history of staying out of civil wars, guerrilla warfare, and aiding the "right" people to come to leadership as it suits us.

Right now though the average person can still say "Where's your tinfoil hat, stop being ridiculous". If it were confirmed, they'd have to switch to "Well if they weren't doing anything wrong they wouldn't have to worry about being interfered with, stop being ridiculous". -- FWIW, I personally would be relatively shocked if that(election tampering) did turn out to be legit. I suppose there's motive and means, but it j…

I can't believe the tinfoil argument is still strong even after the NSA revelations. At this point it's deep denial, which seems to run strong.

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#195

Post by zghst »

chatmasta wrote: post #40
jordigh wrote: post #28

Ed was a Booz Allen Hamilton employee only for a couple of months. He wasn't even out of his probation period as an employee. It's really amazing that in such a short time he was able to siphon all this information out of the NSA. I wonder what more information could he have collected if he had spent a longer time contracting for the NSA. I wonder how much more about the NSA we could know if people who have dedicated…

If you want to put on your tinfoil hat for a second, consider the fact that Snowden started his career in the military, then moved to CIA, then moved to Booz Allen. It's entirely possible that Snowden is an ongoing CIA op to discredit their rival NSA as part of a turf war.

Possibly someone inside the NSA had some dirt on someone inside the CIA and retaliation ensued to keep people at the NSA busy...

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#196

Post by zghst »

chatmasta wrote: post #84
MisterWebz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the CIA willingly do so much damage to the US? Surely there are other ways to sabotage the NSA instead of doing something as high profile as leaking NSA documents to the public. Besides, I think leaking classified documents of other intelligence agencies is something no agency does, because an escalation of this sort would be disastrous for both agencies involved.

Has he really done that much damage? People are more afraid of the NSA than ever. One could argue that's exactly what they wanted.

I don't think the majority of people in the US are afraid, but aware.

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#197

Post by zghst »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #82
MisterWebz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the CIA willingly do so much damage to the US? Surely there are other ways to sabotage the NSA instead of doing something as high profile as leaking NSA documents to the public. Besides, I think leaking classified documents of other intelligence agencies is something no agency does, because an escalation of this sort would be disastrous for both agencies involved.

Last thing CIA would do is reveal them. All leverage is lost. They would instead hold them hostage.

Who knows, in today's political climates, anything and everything will be done

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#198

Post by r00fus »

benmcnelly wrote: post #105
audeyisaacs wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, he also all but accuses NSA of interfering with US ally's Elections.

Honestly, I think its a bit far fetched the US would meddle in the foreign affairs of an ally. We have a long documented history of staying out of civil wars, guerrilla warfare, and aiding the "right" people to come to leadership as it suits us.

"America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests." -Henry Kissinger

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#199

Post by fl0wenol »

sys32768 wrote: post #181

I suspect it was an inside job. The NSA.GOV site is down ATM probably as they do a sweep. A Twitter user inactive since 2005 said it was an inside job and the file naming conventions in the leaks are internal only.

Why does the idea persist in this day and age that because the public-facing component of an organization's website is down or being DDoS'd that it has anything to do with the internet or non-internet facing operations otherwise?

The NSA, White House, and State Department currently use Akamai for their public websites, for example.

Re: Snowden: Hack of an NSA server is not unprecedented, publication of the take is

#200

Post by balabaster »

geggam wrote: post #143
dpark wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a democracy. When you democratically elect representatives, it's a democracy. If you elect incompetent, or corrupt, or evil representatives, it's still a democracy.

The law of the land is the constitution. A Republic is a land of laws. A democracy is a land of majority rule. Democracy is a tyranny of majority. The founders did NOT want a democracy.

It doesn't matter what the founders wanted, they're dead and buried. Their whims and dreams codified in this Constitution that everyone lives and dies by.

What matters is what the people want now and for the future of their United States... are you going to live forever more adhering to the rules of dead people? Seems er... pointless.

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