Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#41

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:43 PM UTC

Chronic9q wrote: post #34

sndean wrote: post #12

> Suddenly, for many Westerners, the problem with food was that there was too much of it. Whenever eating around some friends from South Asian countries who grew up just barely on the positive side of starving, I always make a point of eating everything on my plate (or all the meat off the bone). Because lots of times I've gotten the comment "you eat like a white person." But I wonder how much of that is cultural and…

>Because lots of times I've gotten the comment "you eat like a white person." Is this seriously your reason? I can find someone to make a comment about you, for anything I choose. Just because someone says something doesn't mean you must please them. Poorer communities say "you are wasting daylight" when you don't wake up before sunrise. Does that mean you should change your sleeping schedule?

> > "you eat like a white person."

> Is this seriously your reason?

Conversely, you can't just assume what they say has zero validity.

This seems to indicate that there's a significant difference in the cultural norms and societal knowledge between two populations, with regards to how efficiently food is used. From what I know of South Asian culture, this is generally true. If the whole world adopted traditional dietary norms from Vietnam, that would have most of the environmental impact of the world going vegetarian. It would basically amount to following Michael Pollan's 3 Simple Rules for Eating.

I'm all for learning from other cultures.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#42

Post by xg15 » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:46 PM UTC

woodandsteel wrote: post #20

I think a large part of the reason people waste so much food is that the human mind was designed for a hunter-gatherer way of life. It's hard to get enough food that way, so people ate everything they got. But today we get our food at supermarkets full of far more than we need, and are encouraged in many subtle ways to do so. Also, I am thinking that if a food conservation movement started to get some real traction,…

I'm always sceptical if I see poor eating habits blamed solely on "well that's how the human species works". Yes, much of our biology and preferences are still influenced by the old hunter-gatherer lifestyle (such as our preference for salt, fat and sugar).

However, between the stone age and the present lie many centuries of culture in which humans reflected on their reading habits and changed it in many different ways. As such, blaming the stoneage heritage to solve present-day food problems doesn't seem very useful to me.

Blaming those that exploit that heritage (e.g by producing deliberately high-calorie food so it tastes better) might be more useful.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#43

Post by greenshackle » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:46 PM UTC

mmagin wrote: post #36

samblr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cannot agree more on eating out is such a burn or waste. 2 KFC meals = 12 kilos of rice or pasta = 50 meals at least ?

You need more than rice or pasta to survive.

Rice and beans at the very least, to get all the important amino acids. You need at least some fat too.

You can survive for a long time on just rice+beans+vegetable oil - emphasis on survive - it's not optimal for health, obviously. You want to throw in at least some fish and vegetables for health.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#44

Post by samblr » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:47 PM UTC

mmagin wrote: post #36

samblr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cannot agree more on eating out is such a burn or waste. 2 KFC meals = 12 kilos of rice or pasta = 50 meals at least ?

You need more than rice or pasta to survive.

it is difficult to accept for us that may be for couple of billion people on earth have one or two varieties of food daily.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#45

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:47 PM UTC

ftvbffg wrote: post #6

Food waste is very small problem. If it was eliminated there would be 1.5 times as much food. Bigger problem is eating out (restaurants, fast food) where 90% of money is wasted. Or buying expensive ingredients like meat or very processed foods. 10 times more food can be bought if choosing wisely. I pay maybe 4$-5$/day for food and I routinely throw away half. That's 2$/day wasted. But eating at restaurant wastes so m…

Food waste is very small problem. If it was eliminated there would be 1.5 times as much food.

That's not inconsiderable. The global problem with food/hunger is one of distribution. If 50% of the food demand in the industrialized 1st world is just waste, reducing most of that could increase the share of food purchasing power of the rest of the world.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#46

Post by cossatot » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:48 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #33

So that's 6M tons by 300M people, or about 54 grams of waste per day per person Include banana skins and so on and frankly it seems less wasteful than a natural Consequence of the very inefficient means of each family cooking its own meals instead of using a central cooking and queueing system. I am not saying we are not wasting food, but it's not as if we are say, killing a mammoth and just cutting off the tasty bit…

No, the article is from Canada. It's about 400 grams/day.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#47

Post by tatterdemalion » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:49 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #28

finid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It used to be more common to purchase restaurant food, and home-cooked meals were a luxury for the rich a few hundred years ago, but income and sales tax have imposed higher transaction costs, and made restaurant food more expensive. The point you tried to make with that seems twisted. Home made food was the norm, so when something like MacDonald started, it was actually not junk food, but more like food that only…

No, street food and restaurants were very common historically, (at least) going back to Ancient Greece and Egypt.[1] In those times the poor often did not own kitchens or cooking implements, and spent so much time working that they did not have time to cook. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopolium [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_food#History

Both of these narratives are incomplete - in other contexts (e.g. any primarily pastoral society) the poor did not eat meals prepared by people outside of their kinship group almost ever. The reality is that the relationship between food preparation and class have been very different in different food cultures; you can perform a comparative analysis to critique our food culture, but a narrative of a "historical shift" from "how it used to be" is misleading.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#48

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:50 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #42

woodandsteel wrote: post #20

I think a large part of the reason people waste so much food is that the human mind was designed for a hunter-gatherer way of life. It's hard to get enough food that way, so people ate everything they got. But today we get our food at supermarkets full of far more than we need, and are encouraged in many subtle ways to do so. Also, I am thinking that if a food conservation movement started to get some real traction,…

I'm always sceptical if I see poor eating habits blamed solely on "well that's how the human species works". Yes, much of our biology and preferences are still influenced by the old hunter-gatherer lifestyle (such as our preference for salt, fat and sugar). However, between the stone age and the present lie many centuries of culture in which humans reflected on their reading habits and changed it in many different wa…

Right. Look at the ways in which the government distorts the economic incentives for food producers in the US.

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#49

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:51 PM UTC

afarrell wrote: post #32

samblr wrote: post #21

Nations should have mandatory farming practice for half a year or so like they have mandatory military service. I think such practice will be eye opening on how we treat food.

There are many reasons why this is a bad idea - Because how do you house, feed, care for the health of, and train all of the people, while and keeping them from assaulting each other? - Because then you would have a bunch of poorly-skilled uninterested people around dangerous machinery. - Because there is not enough land for people to be employed productively in using modern farming techniques. - Because forcing peop…

how do you house, feed, care for the health of, and train all of the people, while and keeping them from assaulting each other?

Isn't that just a summary of good government in one question?

Re: Why we throw away more than 6M tonnes of groceries every year (2015)

#50

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Aug 15, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

samblr wrote: post #40

afarrell wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many reasons why this is a bad idea - Because how do you house, feed, care for the health of, and train all of the people, while and keeping them from assaulting each other? - Because then you would have a bunch of poorly-skilled uninterested people around dangerous machinery. - Because there is not enough land for people to be employed productively in using modern farming techniques. - Because forcing peop…

Recently I saw it on YouTube - Japanese school children grow veggies and that are eaten as part of daily school meals. Doing this once or many times would suffice. I have to admit that I did not think through enough before I wrote farming as national service. But Idea here could be to get an experience or to know that there is toil behind to get our food on plate. If it can be done in Japan it can be done elsewhere.…

I suspect Japanese are generally neater and cleaner because they have to clean their own schools as students. I'm constantly amazed and the amount of schmutz that my housemate leaves behind in the bathroom, that would take literally a few seconds here and there for him to just clean up after himself. I've spoken to him about it, and it's literally invisible to him!

Recently, I went away on vacation for a week, and when I returned, the bathroom sink looked a nightmare. I come back, and it's fixed again. I don't think he noticed at all.