Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Charters have a lot of advantages (like they don't have to accept all students, can hire/fire more easily, can kick out bad students) but _still_ don't outperform public schools as a class. That's not entirely true. In urban areas, they do better than public schools. In suburban areas, they do almost exactly the same amount worse. http://credo.stanford.edu/documents/la_report_2013_7_26_2013... The problem is that t…
The study you reference is only of charter schools in one state. Education policy is decided at the state and local level and varies greatly between states and sometimes even between localities within a state. There is no reason to believe the findings in Louisiana extend beyond it.
NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
51–60 of 66 posts
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't there likely a selection bias with the best students more likely to be in a charter school, thus making the school's performance metrics better than district schools?
Of course, but that's a feature, not a bug. People seem to believe that "the best" students will have identical achievement no matter who their surrounding students are. This is (at best) unproven and seems to defy common sense.
I went to a magnet STEM school for half of every day in my last two years of high school. In my rural county, there was no way I was going to get good calculus and physics classes, let alone any programming, modern physics, or advanced math, without the pooling of resources among the several farm town high schools. It undoubtedly increased what my high school education could provide me.
It also would not show up on any testing that would be measured in these studies. I could have watched Netflix instead of taking classes for all of my last two years of high school, and I still would have showed up the same from the perspective of this study: passed every standardized test.
But people fall for these metrics time after time, and school rankings are based on them. My public high school was ranked in the bottom 10% because our pass rates are abysmal, which obviously stems from our huge number of impoverished broken families. The 85-90% AP test pass rate told a different story: show up every day ready to work, and they had some good teachers who would really work with you.
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the point is that if you sent all the under-performing students to the charter schools instead, in order to remove the burden they represent to the gifted students, we would then say.. look.. district schools are outperforming charter schools. Thus, the results don't show that charter schools have some secret sauce that is unavailable to district schools. What you're saying is, separate the winners from the loser…
At the very least, this line of thinking seems to imply that charter schools can pick the best students. It hasn't been demonstrated that public schools can do that. The intelligent teenager whose love for knowledge is crushed by authoritarian public school bullshit is a commonplace. Public schools are famously bad at picking (hiring, promoting, retaining) the best teachers as well.
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The single biggest improvement in school performance (charter or public) comes from switching to year-round school--especially among minorities. Why is this? This sounds like "keeping them busy"...
There are other beefier posts that address this tangentially, but it's about a stable environment. Basically, testing and school performance mostly just follow parent wealth/income/education because those factors indicate stable environments. I'm not saying those household situations don't bring other huge benefits to those kids, but stability seems to be the big cliff that poorer students just can't ascend. So, the…
And here is the primary purpose of public school. Why else is there such a push to create younger and younger pre-kindergarten programs? It's simple. Public schooling is not about education, it is about warehousing children during working hours, since the economy has shifted to require two full-time incomes.
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are other beefier posts that address this tangentially, but it's about a stable environment. Basically, testing and school performance mostly just follow parent wealth/income/education because those factors indicate stable environments. I'm not saying those household situations don't bring other huge benefits to those kids, but stability seems to be the big cliff that poorer students just can't ascend. So, the…
> also allows school to serve as childcare year round And here is the primary purpose of public school. Why else is there such a push to create younger and younger pre-kindergarten programs? It's simple. Public schooling is not about education, it is about warehousing children during working hours, since the economy has shifted to require two full-time incomes.
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But, see, charter schools aren't about improvement. They are about blaming people without actually having to commit more money to solve the actual problem. The U.S. spends far more money on education per capita than any other OECD country besides Switzerland. D.C. spends twice as much compared to Fairfax County next door. We don't need more money, we need reform.
Some of the biggest problems with the US education system are not problems with the US education system. They are problems of poverty that most other OECD countries either don't have or deal with by a stronger social welfare system. Kids in poverty are missing classes, not doing homework, not able to concentrate because they are missing basic neccesities of life. Like a quiet room with a bed. Enough food. A ride to s…
The most effective years of education I had involved zero homework, but admittedly a longer school day. Homework that requires aid from an educated adult is the school dodging the responsibility to teach by trying to farm it out to parents. Not to mention even educated parents can struggle with the ways in which concepts are now taught, referring back to their own knowledge/techniques and confusing the student.
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Charter schools can dismiss students without due process, can kick out or deny students with low grades Those are good things. These kids almost always have serious impulse control problems, and it's better for both those kids and for everyone else to have education tailored to those kids' needs. Teachers should be teachers--they shouldn't have to do double-duty as behavioral therapists. > and are usually not oblig…
We can debate whether they're good things or not, but they clearly confound comparisons with non-charter schools, which do not get to apply those kinds of selection powers to improve their published outcomes.
I don't understand your comment at all, but I am very curious to know what you actually mean. Can you please clarify and expand? To begin, what do you mean by "they" when you say we can debate whether they're good things or not?
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#58There is this alarming trend in our politics which seems to have decided that the poorer and blacker you are, the less you ought to be trusted with your and your own family's livelihood. It's amazing for me to see all of the teachers that I know (I work in the ed. industry) speak often about trying to get into better placements in other schools and whatnot, but at the same time, when it comes to choice and mobility for lower income families, somehow then the "obvious" decision is to force them to be in the system that has systematically underserved them for decades.
If the arguments about needing to put money into public schools is real, and that the exit of certain students to charter schools serves to further undermine the quality of public education, then let's really go all out: Let's forbid charter schools from developing and let's strictly enforce the publicly-funded neighborhood school. But then, let's do the same with administrators, teachers, and staff: Let's have them all be assigned to a school, without any possibility of re-assignment.
See how well teachers/unions/NAACP like that policy...
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#59So, less about the advancement of colored people, and more about being lock-step with the Democratic party (which in this case means the teachers' union).
The article states how the NAACP believes private charter schools hurt blacks and minorities specifically.
Which is to say, the NAACP is reiterating the teachers' unions' talking points. It may even believe them — I can't say.
Re: NAACP members call for ban on privately managed charter schools
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see private schools with the same disdain as I see bottled water. People drinking bottled water and refusing to drink tap water is our failure whether it be actual investment in water infrastructure or in "optics" of our water infrastructure. People sending their kids to privately managed schools is a failure of our public schools or the "optics" of our public schools. I remember that I just said the other day that…
Charter schools are public schools, just managed by private organizations. And it's not a situation where only rich people can get their kids into charter schools. For example, in D.C. the public schools in rich white neighborhoods (Georgetown, Capitol Hill) are district-run. Charter public schools are concentrated neighborhoods with mostly minority populations. Nationally, Charters often have comparable proportions…
Charter schools are publicly-funded schools exempted, via the grant of a special charter (hence the name), from some of the generally-applicable rules governing the public school systems of which they are a part (which particular rules exceptions are made for varies from charter to charter.) They may be publicly operated, operated by private for-profit enterprises, or operated by private non-profit enterprises.
> And it's not a situation where only rich people can get their kids into charter schools.
While that may be the case, among the rules that charters are often exempted are ones which prevent them for cherry-picking students on grounds which, while they may not directly relate to wealth, are strongly correlated with it.
> Charter public schools are concentrated neighborhoods with mostly minority populations.
That's actually part of the problem that minority-interest groups have with them; among the problems that this creates is that they often displace schools that are subject to the normal public rules from those areas, forcing children who are not admitted under the charters rules to go to more distant traditional public schools than they would have to if the charter did not exist. (Another is that, for less-selective charters, members of the population may be effectively coerced into attending the charter as opposed to a traditional public school by the lack of access to traditional public school caused by the charter placement.)