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In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

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11–20 of 49 posts

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#11
post #2

It seems to me that such laws punish people for associating with certain individuals who go on to commit crimes, requiring everyone to essentially be psychic or predict others' actions correctly 100% of the time to stay on the right side of the law. Either that or avoid associating with anyone. It's insane--and certainly unjust--that a law that makes such impossible and ridiculous demands of people is considered just…

If you are a judge and you are in "bad" company all day, does that make you by the spirit of this law make you complicit in future crimes if you release them out into the world?

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#12

I'm a native Texan, which I point out solely to rebut the assertion that all--or even many--Texans are in favor of the death penalty, and I very much oppose the death penalty for reasons exactly such as this. Maybe this man committed a crime; it sure seems like he did. But maybe he didn't. Or maybe he didn't in the way that the state, or the psychiatrist, or the eyewitnesses claim he did. That's the problem with the…

> There are vanishingly few situations where we can be 100%, absolutely clear on whether a person did something that warrants permanently removing that person from existence.

So would you say that the vast majority of murder convictions leave at least a little room for doubt?

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#13
post #12

I'm a native Texan, which I point out solely to rebut the assertion that all--or even many--Texans are in favor of the death penalty, and I very much oppose the death penalty for reasons exactly such as this. Maybe this man committed a crime; it sure seems like he did. But maybe he didn't. Or maybe he didn't in the way that the state, or the psychiatrist, or the eyewitnesses claim he did. That's the problem with the…

> There are vanishingly few situations where we can be 100%, absolutely clear on whether a person did something that warrants permanently removing that person from existence. So would you say that the vast majority of murder convictions leave at least a little room for doubt?

Yes. "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is fine for throwing someone in jail and putting the key all but permanently out of reach. But I think that, as a society, we must retain the ability to say "oh shit we fucked up very much here is the door we are very sorry please take this huge sack of cash along with our sincere apologies" if or when we discover that our legal system made a massive error.

In this day and age, were an exoneration to happen, I would also mandate that the state put up billboards in the person's home town and where the crime allegedly took place and run Internet ads and do lots of press interviews to get it out as widely as possible that someone has been exonerated.

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#14

I'm a native Texan, which I point out solely to rebut the assertion that all--or even many--Texans are in favor of the death penalty, and I very much oppose the death penalty for reasons exactly such as this. Maybe this man committed a crime; it sure seems like he did. But maybe he didn't. Or maybe he didn't in the way that the state, or the psychiatrist, or the eyewitnesses claim he did. That's the problem with the…

>I'm a native Texan, which I point out solely to rebut the assertion that all--or even many--Texans are in favor of the death penalty

When it comes to an action as permanent as killing a person, disapproval without preventative action (i.e., abolition) is tacit approval. So long as Texas keeps executing people, I don't see what difference it makes how many Texans are in favor of it.

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are vanishingly few situations where we can be 100%, absolutely clear on whether a person did something that warrants permanently removing that person from existence. So would you say that the vast majority of murder convictions leave at least a little room for doubt?

Yes. "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is fine for throwing someone in jail and putting the key all but permanently out of reach. But I think that, as a society, we must retain the ability to say "oh shit we fucked up very much here is the door we are very sorry please take this huge sack of cash along with our sincere apologies" if or when we discover that our legal system made a massive error. In this day and age, were…

> "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is fine for throwing someone in jail and putting the key all but permanently out of reach. But I think that, as a society, we must retain the ability to say "oh shit we fucked up very much here is the door we are very sorry please take this huge sack of cash along with our sincere apologies" if or when we discover that our legal system made a massive error.

You'll still never return lost years and decades of someone's life any more than you could return life to a dead man. You can't restore the fractured relationships, undo the pain of imprisonment.

Honestly, I think a quick death (not the insane decades-of-imprisonment-followed-by-ritualistic-execution we have now) is far more humane than life in prison.

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#16

I'm a native Texan, which I point out solely to rebut the assertion that all--or even many--Texans are in favor of the death penalty, and I very much oppose the death penalty for reasons exactly such as this. Maybe this man committed a crime; it sure seems like he did. But maybe he didn't. Or maybe he didn't in the way that the state, or the psychiatrist, or the eyewitnesses claim he did. That's the problem with the…

For the record I am STRONGLY opposed to the death penalty (for moral/religious reasons).

That said, I wonder if you live in the same Texas I visit each year. The vast majority of Texans support the death penalty.

A University of Texas (Austin) poll last year showed 49% of Texans support the death penalty. 26% somewhat support. That's almost 20 million Texans. While just 19% are opposed (of which just 9% strongly oppose).

https://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/set/support-death-penalty-f...

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is fine for throwing someone in jail and putting the key all but permanently out of reach. But I think that, as a society, we must retain the ability to say "oh shit we fucked up very much here is the door we are very sorry please take this huge sack of cash along with our sincere apologies" if or when we discover that our legal system made a massive error. In this day and age, were…

> "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is fine for throwing someone in jail and putting the key all but permanently out of reach. But I think that, as a society, we must retain the ability to say "oh shit we fucked up very much here is the door we are very sorry please take this huge sack of cash along with our sincere apologies" if or when we discover that our legal system made a massive error. You'll still never return lo…

> Honestly, I think a quick death (not the insane decades-of-imprisonment-followed-by-ritualistic-execution we have now) is far more humane than life in prison.

I think many would agree, that both systems are broken. The fix for the first is easier: Just stop it.

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#18

I'm a native Texan, which I point out solely to rebut the assertion that all--or even many--Texans are in favor of the death penalty, and I very much oppose the death penalty for reasons exactly such as this. Maybe this man committed a crime; it sure seems like he did. But maybe he didn't. Or maybe he didn't in the way that the state, or the psychiatrist, or the eyewitnesses claim he did. That's the problem with the…

>I'm a native Texan, which I point out solely to rebut the assertion that all--or even many--Texans are in favor of the death penalty When it comes to an action as permanent as killing a person, disapproval without preventative action (i.e., abolition) is tacit approval. So long as Texas keeps executing people, I don't see what difference it makes how many Texans are in favor of it.

What would you like techsupporter to do? Drive down to the prisons and personally tear down the bars?

"So long as Texas keeps executing people, I don't see what difference it makes how many [Americans] are in favor of it."

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#19
post #5

IMO, the real apparent injustice in this case is the prosecutor's use of a forensic psychiatrist who apparently has a cottage industry in testifying against defendants: > Wood was committed to a mental health hospital after he was found incompetent. A neuropsychologist had testified that Wood was delusional, unable to grasp the issues about his case and the reality facing him... > The writ of habeas corpus, filed in…

Obviously I don't know all the details of the case but I find it troublesome that a psychiatrist would render an opinion without examining the individual who is the object of the opinion. On its face this is unethical particularly in a situation where there's so much at stake.

I'm aware that "assessment at a distance" is frequently sought, for example, reviewing clinical info in the medical record to determine if services were consistent with billing for reimbursement. This is often a question arising with Medicare and other 3rd party payers. However that's not unethical since it's quite different from providing a diagnosis or determining the qualities of a person's functioning without examining the individual.

I have no idea if the doctor's conduct had come before the state licensing board, but it appears there would be substantial reason to consider that conduct "unprofessional" given the actions of the professional societies declaring the behavior as unethical. Normally such disciplinary action carries consider weight with licensing bodies. Most likely this avenue of doing something to keep the situation from recurring has already been explored, it would be a shame if it was overlooked.

Re: In Texas, a man who didn’t kill anybody is about to be executed for murder

#20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is fine for throwing someone in jail and putting the key all but permanently out of reach. But I think that, as a society, we must retain the ability to say "oh shit we fucked up very much here is the door we are very sorry please take this huge sack of cash along with our sincere apologies" if or when we discover that our legal system made a massive error. In this day and age, were…

> "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is fine for throwing someone in jail and putting the key all but permanently out of reach. But I think that, as a society, we must retain the ability to say "oh shit we fucked up very much here is the door we are very sorry please take this huge sack of cash along with our sincere apologies" if or when we discover that our legal system made a massive error. You'll still never return lo…

Then stop treating prisoners so poorly. What I read of US prisons sounds inhumane, so your last sentence comes across to me as comparing two different NaNs.

Also, many countries have banned life imprisonment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment#Reform_or_ab... .

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