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'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

sciencedaily.com

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Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#41

Post by mikeash »

firloop wrote: post #9

The idea of chemtrails is appealing to so many people because it's a way to express outrage toward the elites or upper echelons in society. The theories are always a bit vaporous (like the chemtrails themselves), but I think it's stemming from an honest, genuine sense of frustration that one is being cheated or manipulated by a system that doesn't represent them. Chemtrails give a head to this boogeyman.

In my experience it's just plain ignorance. If you know nothing at all about condensation and combustion chemistry and atmospheric properties, the claim that those white lines in the sky are mind-altering chemicals is just as believable as the claim that it's water created by burning fuel. If the former claim is the first one you encounter, it's easy to just accept it.

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#42

Post by rdiddly »

jimmytidey wrote: post #11

"The survey results show that 76 of the 77 participating scientists said they had not encountered evidence of a secret spraying program" Hang on...

Yes, really curious what the 77th one said.

I quickly arrived at the conclusion chemtrails had to be bullshit when I first heard of it in the 90s. But it's amusing bullshit nonetheless.

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#43

Post by throwaway420 »

> The survey results show that 76 of the 77 participating scientists said they had not encountered evidence of a secret spraying program, and agree that the alleged evidence cited by the individuals who believe that atmospheric spraying is occurring could be explained through other factors, such as typical airplane contrail formation and poor data sampling.

Whatever so called chemtrails are, pretty much anybody honest would have to admit that this really isn't any kind of new science or information that really proves anything one way or the other.

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#44

Post by mikeash »

dsabanin wrote: post #28
dsr_ wrote: post #6

Given the inherent implausibility of a massive global conspiracy that has such obvious effects but no coherent explanation of... anything... it seems to me that it would be more useful to study why and how people come to believe in these things. The problem is in people's heads, not the sky.

I agree, the problem is in the heads of the people who blindly trust everything they are told. Why is it so outrageous to assume that chemtrails might be a covert experiment to manipulate climate (or has some other purpose)? I'm not saying that it is, but is it outrageous to doubt official narratives? Since when is that scientific? Doubt is reasonable, there's no problem here. Unquestioned belief in "common sense" an…

It's not outrageous to take the idea seriously. It is outrageous to believe it stridently without doing any research. If one reads about contrails, one finds a simple explanation for them which matches all observation. Reading the history, one will discover that, for example, they were a real problem for Allied bombers attacking Germany, which sort of implies that they aren't voluntary.

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#45

Post by mattaltieri »

throwaway420 wrote: post #43

> The survey results show that 76 of the 77 participating scientists said they had not encountered evidence of a secret spraying program, and agree that the alleged evidence cited by the individuals who believe that atmospheric spraying is occurring could be explained through other factors, such as typical airplane contrail formation and poor data sampling. Whatever so called chemtrails are, pretty much anybody hones…

What about the 77th guy? I'd love to hear what he had to say...!

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#46

Post by a3n »

engi_nerd wrote: post #29

The chemtrail people are nuts. I have some experience with them from my NASA sounding rocket days. Some sounding rocket missions do release chemicals, including lithium, into the upper atmosphere to study how high-altitude winds behave. That lithium, by the way is a different form than you'll find in psychoactive medications and a very small amount is released anyway. But many chemtrail people believe that every soun…

Aside:

I often wonder what might happen when someone in one group (the chemtrail people) are recruited into the other group (the rocketeers in this case), to work and help in some way. The other direction might involve a skilled researcher helping the chemtrailers to do actual research.

I realize that it's probably hard to find someone from the first group who could make a contribution to the second group, and be willing to pitch in, but there must be someone.

There was an article in the NYT today about Representative Mike Coffman (R) in Colorado. His district was redistricted from the conservative people who elected him before, to 20% Latino with completely different worldviews. Coffman has since changed his professed views on some issues, he says because he's worked with the new set of people.

Political motivations aside, I think this is generally true. It's hard to demonize someone when you have to (get to?) look them in the eye every day and cooperate on a common goal. And it's easy to demonize a group if you avoid their company.

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#47

Post by Laforet »

firloop wrote: post #9

The idea of chemtrails is appealing to so many people because it's a way to express outrage toward the elites or upper echelons in society. The theories are always a bit vaporous (like the chemtrails themselves), but I think it's stemming from an honest, genuine sense of frustration that one is being cheated or manipulated by a system that doesn't represent them. Chemtrails give a head to this boogeyman.

I never took the conspiracy seriously but I was decently surprised by the number of contrails visible in the sky on a clear day during my visits to the Northeast of USA. I understand it was probably a due to a combination of climate (my visits all happened to be in Winter) and the sheer density of commercial flights in that airspace, however the observation did make me feel a little empathy for those people who buy into conspiracy theories since the trails can appear very much unnatural and menancing.

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#48

Post by blueprint »

dsr_ wrote: post #6

Given the inherent implausibility of a massive global conspiracy that has such obvious effects but no coherent explanation of... anything... it seems to me that it would be more useful to study why and how people come to believe in these things. The problem is in people's heads, not the sky.

How about the possibility that these scientists would rather believe such a conspiracy does not exist? After all, we have a lot of people ignoring the severity of global warming for the very reason that it's heavy burden to bear to live with one's eyes opened to the true extent of reality. Scientists are not necessarily self-aware, even though that is our ideal or definition of a true scientist.

Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts

#50

Post by mikeash »

hellofunk wrote: post #22

I'm surprised to see this article in 2016. I thought chemtrails were debunked decades ago.

They were never debunked because they were never really "bunked" to begin with. It has always been an extreme fringe theory with zero real support. I have no idea why they found it worthwhile to correct.
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