Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 107 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#51

Post by beagle3 »

I've known more than one person who tried something else and went back to software. The unfortunate and not-so-easy-to-admit issue is that for many, perhaps even the vast majority of, software engineers have (on a 10-15 years forward looking basis) a global maximum of salary optimization in the software field. Also, most of us have no idea how easy (except intellectually) our job is compared to other jobs which are more demanding physically and emotionally.

On a 30-year forward looking basis, we appear to be fucked, though - the only 50-year old software guys I know are either self employed, or have been working at the same place for 20 years. Even "stable" employees who only switch jobs every 5 years have problem finding new jobs when they are older.

If you know of something else you'd rather be doing, and you are able to support yourself[0], and have a reasonable 10 year horizon, by all means do. But if there's nothing you are passionate about, then in all likelihood you would be just as burned and make less just trying to run an alternative method of income.

That said, I highly recommend reading Tim Ferris' "4 hour work week" book. Do not treat it as gospel, but do follow the math - it will give you a good idea (and possibly some inspiration) of where you need to be and possibly some steps on the way to get there.

[0] but, be honest with yourself - if you make less, will you still be happy enough outside of work? Many people aren't as happy once they find out what they actually have to give up. Just give the difference to charity for a couple of months to see how well you manage.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#52

Post by gaius »

timr wrote: post #36
jitix wrote: post #14

Have you considered moving to a better area of tech? Some of the new things being done with AI, Learning and Automation are pretty cool and might provide more excitement that your current job (since you didnt specify I assumed that you're in general product/solution development field)

I have been programming for longer than the OP, I have an advanced degree, and I can assure you: unless you have research-level skills in these areas, they will fall out of fashion and you will be stranded in a niche. Even if you do have PhD-level training, you'll still be in that niche...you just might be able to survive when the pond dries up again. I know it doesn't seem like it to folks who haven't been around fo…

AI Winter is coming

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#54

Post by anupshinde »

>"No respect for experience"

I felt the same for few years. It takes getting used to

> "How to successfully get out of tech?"

Probably not get out of it, but move away from this role. Delegate, delegate and delegate. If consulting, take a huge pay cut for sometime. It is harder in the beginning, especially with that much experience and/or being an expert. But it is easier to "earn time" and probably respect by that way.

People, and mostly experts, sometimes say "I don't want to get into management". They like what they do and I can totally understand why. However, when they do not delegate and not teach a team how to do great things - they also end up doing a huge disservice to the industry. As a result, we have so many idiotic management guys who just shouldn't exist in the industry

Optionally, Banking and Finance is one industry where you might be able to get in and may be grow easily because of your tech experience. But you will definitely feel burned out and might be working 16-18 hours a day including weekends. After a few years you just know some things - like writing a for loop. You have to keep learning and exploring, but the basic framework doesn't change.

Medical school - It takes a lot of time to just learn and then you will be working for 12-15 hours. And the life you live isn't really independent as you might think. Docs make a really good living. You do have to learn new stuff, but its not like learning a new living organism every year (compare to language/frameworks). And experience is valued.

Law - same thing, good lawyers have to work a lot. And they make a huge living, 100K might be peanuts. Experience is valued.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#55

Post by beagle3 »

weinzierl wrote: post #44
beagle3 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially if you are not going to practice at the end, consider going abroad to study (might be possible even with family, definitely possible without). The costs in western europe are about 15%-20%. The costs in eastern europe are half that, and in some places in Asia it is cheaper still. If you want to practice in the US, you will have to take some local-law courses (law) and pass the bar/board exams - but it will…

Good advice for probably every field except law. Law is so different in most European countries that it won't be of much use in the US. Also a lot in civil law hinges on subtleties in the respective language.

Possibly; I've met two Israeli lawyers and two British lawyers who moved to the US and were able to pass the bar exam within a year or so - I have no idea how hard they worked at it (and what preparations they did before moving to the US), but it was certainly cheaper then going to school in the US.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#56

Post by gaius »

Animats wrote: post #24
bsamuels wrote: post #4

maybe become a commercial airline pilot? won't make you a living wage in the valley but you can live well virtually anywhere else plus you get to fly planes which is cool

Miserable job today. Start at $28K a year.[1] That's for experienced pilots with 1500 hours. Start by being on reserve, which means you're on 2-hour call for when they need someone. An SF Muni bus driver is better paid. It's one of those jobs which, like "game developer" or "actor", attracts people who really want to be in the business, even though the job sucks. [1] http://www.skywest.com/skywest-airline-jobs/career…

A senior captain at BA makes a very good living, but they got in when it was a lucrative field and their union locked the benefits in. Nowadays without seniority in a union, you have nothing.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#57

Post by [deleted] »

gaius wrote: post #49
kevindeasis wrote: post #38

I can't believe no one has mentioned opening up a retail, foodchain (not a restaurant), coffeeshop or franchising. If you open one of these in a good location you can make really really good coin. It's crazy how much money coffee shops in my campus makes. There are more than 20 coffee shops in a 1km radius and they are all making insane profits for a medium size campus.

How much of that is paid in rent tho'? Classic landlord tactic, get a business in, if it's a success capture all of its profit, if it goes bust get another one. As with all things, if it was easy everyone would be doing it...

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#58

Post by kevindeasis »

gaius wrote: post #49
kevindeasis wrote: post #38

I can't believe no one has mentioned opening up a retail, foodchain (not a restaurant), coffeeshop or franchising. If you open one of these in a good location you can make really really good coin. It's crazy how much money coffee shops in my campus makes. There are more than 20 coffee shops in a 1km radius and they are all making insane profits for a medium size campus.

How much of that is paid in rent tho'? Classic landlord tactic, get a business in, if it's a success capture all of its profit, if it goes bust get another one. As with all things, if it was easy everyone would be doing it...

Including the business outside the campus are around 100k-5million after rent. I have not seen any landlord doing what you've mentioned.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#59

Post by beagle3 »

kkarakk wrote: post #47
beagle3 wrote: post #37

I hear you, and hope you can find something that works for you. A cousin of mine, an aeronautic engineer, went on to become a patent agent (editor/writer/evaluator) at a big patent firm. He needed to do some legal training, but it was less than a year -- not a full law degree. He couldn't be happier - he is paid to read and be up-to-date on a lot of interesting stuff, has conversations with interesting people all day…

Being comfortable is an issue regardless of career. A self-satisfied sales guy who doesn't know the latest buzzwords and customer expectations is as useless as an IT guy who doesn't know the latest buzzwords and optimizations. Really interesting thought though, experienced coders should be tested about the cutting edge instead of what is familiar

> A self-satisfied sales guy who doesn't know the latest buzzwords and customer expectations is as useless as an IT guy who doesn't know the latest buzzwords and optimizations.

I beg to differ.

Latest buzzwords and optimizations are often detrimental. Among most important thing for a coder is (a) ability to learn, and (b) critical thinking. Following the latest buzzwords demonstrates (a) but is often a red flag for (b). E.g., for a while "hadoop" was all the buzz; I have interviewed some people who have used hadoop/spark, but not one could justify it (see e.g. [0] - which is consistent with my back-of-the-envelope calculations I made in 2010 the first time someone suggested I use hadoop).

Furthermore, large scale sales do not happen because of buzzword compliance or even customer expectations. Sales happen because of compelling events and personal relationship. If buzzwords and numbers were all that mattered, engineers would be the best sales people; And yet, it is soft skills that make a good sales person.

[0] http://www.frankmcsherry.org/graph/scalability/cost/2015/01/...

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of Tech and still make a decent living?

#60

Post by zerotosixty »

rbosinger wrote: post #41
louprado wrote: post #29

Coincidentally 15 years ago a fellow engineer told me his plan was to keep the same job as long as possible, get to the point where it isn't demanding intellectually, clock in the minimum hours, and then find fulfillment through family, friends, and hobbies. He has built 3 homes in his spare time, is a millionaire, and has an amazing family. It took me 15 years to realize he was right. I now work 4 hours a day as a .…

I once rubbed a friend the wrong way when he said "maybe I'll just get out of tech, take a few years of courses and become an electrician or something like that. Make 100k and be happy with that... leave the computer behind." My response was: "Fine plan but don't think you'll just go make 100k after a couple years of trade school and not have any stresses!" A few people showed me I was wrong about that but we were al…

I used to work in the oil industry (Alberta) when I was in undergrad. I was offered to quit school and get paid 90k.

Thanks god I rejected that offer and went to tech. Most of my friends were laughing that I was taking computing science. They were making 90-130k in the trades.

Then the recession hit and most of them are now unemployed or have taken a huge paycut.

I feel bad for them since they took out a mortgage and a 70k truck. I'm not angry at them for making fun of my career. I just wish people would respect people's career choice.

Post reply on HN